how much does increasing mpw improve marathon if workouts remain the same?

sub_3_is_the_goal wrote:

How would all this translate into marathon times? If you're a 3:00 marathoner on 60mpw what would you expect the 80 and 100 mpw folks to be at? Obviously this isn't a scientific exercise but I'm curious as to your thoughts of the value of the extra 20-40 mpw of easy running.

Have to make an important assumption: Said runner has never run more than 60 mpw before.

I would bet the improvement just through the extra easy miles is much larger than anyone who has never run high mileage believes.

60 mpw: 3:00

80 mpw: 2:40

100 mpw: 2:30

That actually lines up pretty well with my own experience (2:55 @50mpw, 2:37 @70mpw one year later, 2:28 @90mpw another two years later).

That is, given the same intensity and volume of the workouts, just as OP describes. Obviously you can't just jump from 60mpw to 100 mpw but need one or two (or even more, see my progression) training cycles in between.

Cross train, cross train, cross train

sub_3_is_the_goal wrote:

Say you run 60 mpw and do a tempo workout each week, long run, etc.

Then you do 80 mpw and do the same exact workouts (i.e. the distance/intensity does not change), but your easy mileage increases 20 mpw.

...

This is a bit ambiguous. Are the workouts exactly the same, or is the intensity the same? With an extra 20 mpw, you'll be able to do a workout faster but with the same intensity; likewise, if you're doing interval training, the intervals can be much shorter while holding the repeats (time, distance, and number of reps) constant.

Either way, you're definitely going faster with 20 more miles.

There will be significant progression, because your workouts will likely improve in quality, assuming you don't add quantity in parallel.

Speaking from personal experience, I went from a 2:37 marathon 3 years ago with a peak of 70 miles to 2:30 last year with a peak of 85 miles and am preparing again north of 105 MPW, aiming for 2:22 later this year. (I'm 37) The quality sessions in my build up year over year for like-workouts have improved considerably, so hoping the additional volume and quality translates to a big breakthrough race.

I ran 3:01 on ~ 35 a week for training. Highest week ever was 45. I get injury prone at that weekly mileage.

So when I see guys running 60 mpw, I figure they should easily be breaking 2:50 and always wonder why they can't.

Just based on my data.

For me it wasn't the mpw, it was, make your long runs more than 20 mi. That's not long enough.

yeahitsmeagain wrote:

For me it wasn't the mpw, it was, make your long runs more than 20 mi. That's not long enough.

How fast did you run the 20+ mile long runs?

I am trying to add more short, fast races for this training cycle for NYC. I ran 90-120 mpw for Boston 2018 but no shorter races (still did 10 mile tempos between HMP and MP and speed intervals and long runs up to 22 miles@MP). For this cycle I am doing 80-100 mpw (similar workouts but only doing 26.2K of my fast long runs at MP)and have raced a 5K(17:05 on XC course). 10K(34:52 with hills) and downhill half 1:13:08 with another flat half planned in 2 1/2 weeks. I hope I can get sub- 2:45 at NYC. I thought I was in shape for sub-2:45 at Boston but got wrecked by the weather and ended up with 2:54.

Actually I did run a 1:18 half right before I started my Boston training but no other races.

Simple answer: Not much.

In my opinion, you are better off keeping mileage the same and adding distance and/or intensity to the workouts.

More easy mileage now helps with adding more volume of fast running later.

Are you training to get faster or are you training to jog more?

One way to find out.

BostonRunCoach wrote:

Are you training to get faster or are you training to jog more?

So you don't buy the theory that running slow makes you run fast?

Way to many people focus on running too far and their quality goes out the window or was never there to begin with. How is it that many athletes out there run the same distance as the pros and never come close to their times....answer INTENSITY(and only at the highest levels, like All-Conference/All-American level, ABILITY).

Most people, don't realize how hard the top guys work out for all of their sessions. Top level athletes religiously immerse themselves in the pain...though maybe at some level people do realize it and that's why more people would go feel accomplished with a shuffled 20miler than kill themselves for less than a dozen. There are also a heap of US champs athletes who have WAY lower mileages than you might imagine. Especially If you are working full time, have kids, other commitments, etc then the mileage has to be a secondary priority in order to keep your workouts hard. If you are looking to get faster then:

1) Increase intensity of workouts while keeping mileage the same

2) Increase distance of some workouts while giving a little in speed

3) Only then increase base mileage

The great thing is that it won't take you any longer to train, its a doable challenge to just run harder! Go Get it!!!!

Source: I have run a few laps under the bright lights but can't sleep tonight

*BTW for most pros base mileage season isn't really a thing(not trying to get regular run pace muscle memory), the workouts are just longer and more rythmic...just something to think about! Happy Running : )

Training age really matters here too. If you've only gone through one 4 - 6 month training cycle at mileage X, you will likely improve the next time around just maintaining that mileage. So if you increase mileage on the very next cycle, how can you know how much improvement is from the increase in mpw and how much is from just continuing to train consistently?

Depends on the pace at the easy distance and how the extra mileage will affect the quality.

You’re looking at this backwards if you are trying to improve in the marathon. You should be planning how you can increase the mileage on your quality days. Build your “track day” from 3* 1 mile to 3* 3 miles. Build your 20 minute tempo day to 10 miles at marathon pace. Build your long run of 12 miles at 8 min pace to 20 at 7:30 pace. Your mileage will build naturally and gradually.

The above 3 posters (shortcut, Couch JS and Backwards man) between them have nailed it with their answers imo. OP needs to train smarter. Good thread guys.