HELP! train in the heat...I mean real heat! suggestions

if running is really a priprity for you maybe you should move . not trying to insult. it might make you happier

Maybe you’re not breathing correctly? Try only breathing in and out through your mouth. Yes you might swallow a couple of bugs. But if your nose constricts when you breathe hard then it is limiting your respiration.

I used to live in Georgia where the summers were hot. Then I moved to Bangkok for work. Georgia was no longer hot compared to Bangkok. It is much more humid and a lot hotter in Bangkok. To acclimate the best thing to do is run early in the morning at 5:30am and reduce your mileage. As you adapt you can begin to increase your miles and your pace.

kmaclam wrote:

Working Harder wrote:

To add to that, right this second according to accuweather it is 105 degrees with a dew point of 61 and a relative humidity of only 23% which is why humidity doesn’t tell the entire story.

But a dew point of 61 would be SO welcome virtually anywhere in the States during the summer. No?

would be welcome here. I haven't seen a dewpoint that low since early may.

Surely, when viewed by itself and not accounting for ambient temp or the direct sunlight (lack of shade). I’m not saying it’s any worse than a warm and humid climate, I’ve lived and trained in those as well, but it’s also not necessarily any better or more comfortable.

Here is a link to how MPR breaks it down to show pace adjustments as a product of temp and dp combined. In essence, a high dew point of say 80 when combined with an ambient temp of 80 yields the same combined affect of a lower dew point, 65, but a higher ambient temp of 95. Both result in a score of 160 and a necessary pace adjustment of approximately 6-8%.

http://maximumperformancerunning.blogspot.com/2013/07/temperature-dew-point.html?m=1

I’m from NJ and I know it’s not that hot compared to some other places but often it’s 85-90+ degrees and 80-90% humidity and sometimes sunny and there hasn’t been a single day this summer that I “couldn’t run” because if he heat. I also spent a couple weeks in VA this summer. I’ve lost 5+ pounds of sweat on single 10mile runs. I did a 4 mile tempo on the track at about 540 pace and I had sweat dripping off everywhere off my elbows flying down my legs. Just man up. If I, a high school kid can do it so can you guys there isn’t much to it. Also just drink 150-200 fl oz of water

U guys are pvssies wrote:

I’m from NJ and I know it’s not that hot compared to some other places but often it’s 85-90+ degrees and 80-90% humidity and sometimes sunny and there hasn’t been a single day this summer that I “couldn’t run” because if he heat. I also spent a couple weeks in VA this summer. I’ve lost 5+ pounds of sweat on single 10mile runs. I did a 4 mile tempo on the track at about 540 pace and I had sweat dripping off everywhere off my elbows flying down my legs. Just man up. If I, a high school kid can do it so can you guys there isn’t much to it. Also just drink 150-200 fl oz of water

Great attitude! Seriously. Why complain about what we can't control it. Just run through it.

first to clear a couple things up:

) you are not likely getting temps in the 90's and rh > 85% at the same time. 90F and 85rh corresponds with a dew point of 85F, which is in or near all-time record territory everywhere in the US.

) a dew point higher than the 50's means diddly when the temperature is hot. The hotter air can hold more water, and usually does if water is available to evaporate into it during the day. If it's 90F and the dew point is 70F then RH is only 52%.

Running in hot weather, particularly when it's close to or above body temperature, requires cooling by sweating, so RH is what you need to worry about, as it tells you whether your sweat can evaporate. Dew point only means high RH if the actual temperature isn't much above it. How do you get good at it?

1) The answer is mainly adaptation by increasing blood volume. Heat is transported by blood to the skin for sweating, therefore extra blood allows you to sweat more.

2) sweat works by extracting heat energy from the skin to change from liquid to gas. If it soaks into your shirt first before evaporating, then all that accomplishes is cooling down the shirt. Never wear a shirt training in heat. Likewise no long shorts or long socks.

3) hydrate and electrolytes

4) shave your head shiny bald like Mo Farah so you can sweat effectively from your scalp. I am convinced it's why he does it and is one of his winning "secrets."

5) what cooling you can still get from conduction comes largely from where you have little or no subcutaneous fat and a lot of veins, including the hands and feet (and scalp). Try keeping your hands flat instead of cupping them. Hold them under running water. Wear flyknit shoes.

[quote]Bad Wigins wrote:

4) shave your head shiny bald like Mo Farah so you can sweat effectively from your scalp. I am convinced it's why he does it and is one of his winning "secrets."

I'm not that committed. And would probably not go over so well on the home front...but I appreciate the "outside the box" thinking. Thanks Bad Wigins!

IckleMe wrote:

Same with "Acclimate over a week of two", I've lived here for years now...that's not happening. (I am naturally not very comfortable in the heat). Accordingly, I basically only have a "half year" running season, I try and start late September and by early May I have to shut it down.

You haven't acclimated because you're not running hard in the summer. Period.

I live in SW Florida, so there's no way it's worse where you are than where I am (unless you're on Key West, which holy hell is that even worse somehow). I haven't run in a dew point under 70 in probably three months. And I run every day during the summer. It will take a few years, but eventually it won't be as bad. It still sucks (compared to Dec-Feb), but it's totally manageable.

Your half marathon pace is 9:35. Absolutely you need to run/walk. I bet every single person who has given you advice can run a half marathon at 8:00 pace, many at 6:00 pace. It's just not the same thing.

I think 50-50 run-walk is a great idea. Maybe do 2 minutes of each, and go for 40 minutes total. Start running really slowly, but hopefully after a couple months you'll be down to 10-minute pace, and maybe the run-walks will be an hour. That would be 3 miles of running.

Fortunately, summer will start to break soon, but you absolutely need to be run/walking given your issues.

kmaclam wrote:

Working Harder wrote:

To add to that, right this second according to accuweather it is 105 degrees with a dew point of 61 and a relative humidity of only 23% which is why humidity doesn’t tell the entire story.

But a dew point of 61 would be SO welcome virtually anywhere in the States during the summer. No?

Depends. Dew point 60+ usually means pretty unpleasant, and 70+ means probably shouldn't be running. Those are my tolerances though. If it's cloudy or dark those dew points are easier to deal with. If the sun is shining clear and bright and there isn't shade, then 60 dew point sucks too.

To put it a little more clearly (and in agreeance with Bad Wiggins) ...

The greater the gap between dew point and temperature the better off you'll be, as it means there is ability for sweat to evaporate.

You just do it. Someone above mentioned running in Florida. It's brutal from June through September. Morning temps in the 80s with humidity in the 80s or 90s, and that's before the sun comes up. Easy to lose 10+ pounds of sweat on a long run. But you just do it. Pace suffers, so you adjust. Your body will acclimate. That doesn't make it easy but will help make it possible if you don't mind reduced performance. Drink a lot on the run. 40+ ounces per hour after you get a full sweat going. Finish within 1 hour of sunrise. Drink OJ after. When Fall arrives, or you go north for a race, you'll fly...

Oh Please wrote:

Dew point 60+ usually means pretty unpleasant, and 70+ means probably shouldn't be running. Those are my tolerances though. If it's cloudy or dark those dew points are easier to deal with. If the sun is shining clear and bright and there isn't shade, then 60 dew point sucks too.

This is a good example of acclimatization. The dew point is over 70 every hour of every day for about four months in central Florida, so there's no real alternative. Having run here for many, many years, I don't really think of it as downright horrible until the dew point is maybe 78 or so, and I wouldn't consider not running unless it was like 83 (which if you've never experienced, is literally running in a sauna). But when the DP hits 70 in February, as it does occasionally, I'm a lot less used to it, so it really sucks.

So the point is you have to get out there and run.

There's good evidence of some acclimatization to heat and humidity. One of many articles here:

https://sci-hub.tw/10.1055/s-2007-971984

I remember in Alex Hutchinson's book Endure they had found that some people can acclimatize in a few days, others take weeks.

You have to accept that cutting the pace is necessary. Try to track pace, HR, and perceived exertion if you have to run in the heat. It should improve some. Still, 70+ DP and over 90deg is hell and its hard to get real fast work done.

My suggestion as well. It sounds like the OP gives up because he's running so slowly (and probably uncomfortably), thinking that there's no progress, but he really just needs to power through the summer. When it cools down in the fall, it'll feel like coming down from altitude. The first time I BQ'd (Oct marathon in

*he or she - apologies

personalized wrote:

Your half marathon pace is 9:35. Absolutely you need to run/walk. I bet every single person who has given you advice can run a half marathon at 8:00 pace, many at 6:00 pace. It's just not the same thing.

I think 50-50 run-walk is a great idea. Maybe do 2 minutes of each, and go for 40 minutes total. Start running really slowly, but hopefully after a couple months you'll be down to 10-minute pace, and maybe the run-walks will be an hour. That would be 3 miles of running.

Fortunately, summer will start to break soon, but you absolutely need to be run/walking given your issues.

Yeah I am a "mere mortal", new-ish masters runner. Just trying to get back to my 10K pace and maybe hope to do a barely sub-2:00 half and finish a Full with "dignity". I know "suck it up" "power through" works for some, but all the research, journals and professionals do not seem to suggest this approach, and I think those 1960's "football coach" days are behind me.

Started doing some run/walk and trying to get out there on a regular basis, and hopefully be ready for some winter races. Thanks everyone for the advice and suggestions. "Not summer" should be here in about 2 months!! woohoo