Farah already downgrading London expectations

ex-runner wrote:

So Farah gives a realistic expectation of top 10 and you guys try to rip him for it...?

Nowhere did he say his expectation was just top 10. He said, "I wouldn't even be ranked top 10 in the marathon" - which makes sense because he's only ran one marathon, which was clearly a money grab and he hardly trained. What he did say was "mix it up with the top guys and get a PB."

I don't expect him to win but I do think 2:05-2:06 and top 5 are realistic outcomes...

Moby wrote: because all Mo does is talk about being a "champion"

between Aug-2006 and Aug-2017 he participated in 20 major outdoor championships, and won 17 of them, taking silver at the other three. between Sep-2011 and Aug-2017 he won 13 consecutive major titles at 5000m and 10000m, doing the double on five consecutive occasions, twice at the Olympic games, twice at the World championships, and at the European championships. he doesn't just "talk" about being a champion. he is a champion, many times over.

he has more medals from the middle distance events than any other athlete, ever. 17 gold and 3 silver. 2nd on the list is Haile Gebrselassie with 10 gold, 2 silver and a bronze. Hicham El Guerrouj (ETH) and Thomas Wessinghage (GER) share 3rd place with 12 apeice.

he is the European record holder at 1500m. which means he is faster than Steve Cram, Steve Ovett and Sebastian Coe, all of whom at one time held the world record for the mile or 1500m, or both. he is the European indoor record holder at 5000m, and the world record holder at 2 miles.

It's okay if you don't like him, but to claim that all he does is talk about being a champion is wilful ignorance.

cheers.

Crushing Blow, your entire thread is nonsense. Downgrading from what? He's never said he would compete for the win at VLM ever, it's his first marathon that he's actually trained for, give him a break FFS. Nut job.

Come on man the guy was an also ran until he was nearly 30 and had jumped a level right after joining Salazar. That simply does not happen. He was never a serious threat at the world stage, he's suspect and he always will be.

He was 27. Is that too old? What's the optimum age to find success where you don't get accused of doping?

EK FTW wrote:

notthe GOAT wrote:

I actually like the Lebron vs Jordan comparison. Mo loves the attention. Him and Lebron are obsessed with tooting their own horn on social media. All Mo says is "that's what champions do," and how much he sacrifices to be great. It's a self obsessed image. Real champions of the sport are fearless, which Mo has not proven to be...

Meanwhile... after a world tour following Berlin, Eliud Kipchoge has disappeared, living simple and training hard in Kenya, readying himself to mop the floor, err roads, in London with all of these other guys. Including the "also ran", Sir Mo Farah.

I personally don't think anyone has a chance of defeating Kipchoge in London this year.

Farah doesn't personally think he can beat Kipchoge either. Watch the interview.

So what's your problem exactly?

It's weird to read stuff that makes sense on LR sometimes. This makes sense.

the level farah fanboyism on this thread is absurd.

Banner wrote:

He was 27. Is that too old? What's the optimum age to find success where you don't get accused of doping?

You don't go from being known as a very good runner at 25 to possibly being considered an all time great talent by 30. By the time you are 21 or so your potential is known unless you had not been doing serious training for very long up until that age. Think about it. Historically he was going to end up a nobody at age 24 and now you have people attempting to debate that he's a better track athlete than Haile and Bekele. He's something like 3-20 vs Bekele. It's ridiculous and the transformation happened pretty rapidly. On the bigger stages he would rarely get mentioned at all and rightfully so when you're a long shot to even get on the podium.

Read my lips wrote:

Funny how everyone seems to call Mo a doper, if that was so surely he could have had a cracked at the doped WRs??

Try using your brain, if you have one.

3200y5000 wrote:

He's ran

He has run. He's run.

HahaRiiiiiiight wrote:

he's only ran one marathon

He has only RUN one marathon.

A good goal for Mo is Steve Jones's British record, 2:07:13. Certainly no other Brit around now has a shot at it.

Mo is undeniably the greatest championship distance runner of all time. Period. An unprecendented run of golds and only two silvers from 2011-2017. That's 7 seasons of basically being unbeatable at events that are difficult to dominate for so long. We may never see such dominance again.

However, his achievements will always be regarded with suspicion and for good reason. He went from mid-pack elite to unbeatable elite at the age of 28, an age at which most runners lose their top end speed and start declining. And he stayed at the top until he was 34, which was unprecendented. He appears to defy the laws of aging, as opposed to other all time distance greats (Geb, Tergat, Bekele, Kipchoge, Tadese). All the while, he associated himself with multiple shady characters (Salazar, Jama Aden), barely ever raced except at championships (Ramzi), and liked to get on TV and deny the accussations (Lance), all behaviors reflective of recent dopers. It all seems too good to be true.

So was Mo great? Yes. But was his rise and dominance suspicious? Yes. Always will be.

Takinadump wrote: You don't go from being known as a very good runner at 25 to possibly being considered an all time great talent by 30. By the time you are 21 or so your potential is known unless you had not been doing serious training for very long up until that age.

the average (mean) age at which middle distance runners get their FIRST medal in a major championship, starts at 23 for the 400m and climbs to 25 for the 10000m.

the exact figures are: 400m 23.70, 800m 23.84, 1500m 24.25, 3000m 25.21, 5000m 25.75, 10000m 25.86

for 5000m the standard deviation is 3.69 so the "normal" range is from 22.05 - 29.44

Mo Farah was 23 years and 143 days old when he won his first medal, a silver at the 2006 European championships in Gothenburg. so he falls smack in the middle of the "normal" age for doing this.

for 10000m the standard deviation is 3.76 so the "normal" range is from 22.10 - 29.62.

Mo Farah was 27 years and 126 days old when he won his first 10000m medal, gold at the European championships in Barcelona in 2010. this is also inside the "normal" range for male middle distance runners.

by contrast, Mamo Wolde was 36 years and 123 days old when he won his only medal at 10000m, a silver at the Mexico olympics in 1968. and Bruce Kidd of Canada was just 19 years and 121 days old when he did the 5000m and 10000m double at the commonwealth games in 1962. these two make Farah look pretty normal, age wise, which he is.

cheers.

why? is abdi a dope guy?

First of all, Mo was always competitive at the Euro level dating back to being a junior. But he did not make the shift to world beater until he was 28 and after a shift to NOP. Most distance world beaters become world beaters well before 28.

Next, the historical examples you provided are of tenuous connection to the modern age. Guys like Wolde, Bikila, and Yifter were pioneers of the East African distance scene that were utilizing geographic advantages before we knew it was an advantage. Now the scene is dominated by guys getting their start as teenagers. Bruce Kidd competed when there were only a few Africans on the scene and distance running was much less deep than it is now.

Mo dominating from age 28 to 34 is completely unprecedented in modern distance running. He is beyond the bounds of normal. He didn't just stay competitive; he was unbeatable. The only similar athlete in history is Yifter. And again, the 70s was still before the East Africans were coming in bunches and training methods were not as widely known.

Banner wrote:

Crushing Blow, your entire thread is nonsense. Downgrading from what? He's never said he would compete for the win at VLM ever, it's his first marathon that he's actually trained for, give him a break FFS. Nut job.

Are you going to cry about it?

Takinadump wrote:

Banner wrote:

He was 27. Is that too old? What's the optimum age to find success where you don't get accused of doping?

You don't go from being known as a very good runner at 25 to possibly being considered an all time great talent by 30. By the time you are 21 or so your potential is known unless you had not been doing serious training for very long up until that age. Think about it. Historically he was going to end up a nobody at age 24 and now you have people attempting to debate that he's a better track athlete than Haile and Bekele. He's something like 3-20 vs Bekele. It's ridiculous and the transformation happened pretty rapidly. On the bigger stages he would rarely get mentioned at all and rightfully so when you're a long shot to even get on the podium.

At age 21, Chris Solinsky had a 5000 PR of 13:27 running for Jerry Schumacher at Wisconsin. The year he turned 25 his PR was 13:18. The year he turned 26 he improved to 12:55 and ran a 26:59 10,000.

At age 21, Farah had a 5000 PR of 13:38 running for St Mary’s College, Twickenham. After training with Alan Storey for three years, at age 25 his PR was 13:07. The year he turned 27 he improved to 12:57. (And that was before he went to train with Salazar.)

Somehow Farah is suspicious, but Solinsky is not?