Anybody Good train with HRM?

i believe that the Villanova guys use them.

I said... anybody GOOD?... just kidding ha ha, I just had to take that cheap shot.

I use it to make sure my heart rate drops enough during my walk breaks.

All time lists at Nova don't include anyone wearing a HRM. Think that means something? Naaaaah!

I thought I read somewhere that Colorado uses them occasionally during their time trial or AT runs...

I'm a proud HRM user. Sadly, I'm not elite but am racing faster and easier. It took some getting used to. First, don't use the percentages time your max to get your target. Those numbers are too low. Running uses more/larger muscle groups than other activities. Use the percentage of the difference between your max and min and then add back in your min. The formula looks like ...

Target Heart Rate = (Effort_Level * (Max - Min)) + Min)

Thus, your target heart rate for a 30 year male with a resting heart rate of 50 at 75% effort would be ...

155 = (.75 * (190 - 50) + 50)

Now, for the good stuff. There are all sorts of workouts you can do with the HRM and your target heart rate zones. First, try a Lactic Threshold workout. This means do surges that take you to 80-85% effort in the middle of a run. I like 5 x 3 minutes (5 minute rest) or 7 x 2 minutes (4 minute rest). Do the first one at 80% and maintain that pace for the remainder of the surges. By the last one, your heart rate should be up to 85% as you fatigue.

When you're comfortable with this run, try the same format with an effort level of 85%-90%. You'll soon notice that 85% is the magic number where things get alittle tougher and you'll need alittle extra rest the next day.

Save the 90-95% zone for your sharpening phase. It's generally too much for longer intervals as it will leave you too fatigued.

Is this helpful information?

your recoveries seem too long to me for running at LT pace. Mile repeats w/ 1 min recoveries are great for developing LT, or 4-6 mile threshold runs at this same intensity/percentage. The idea is to hold the pace w/ consistency over a period of time. I'm not sure that running in this window for 3 min periods w/ a large amount of rest is going to accomplish what you would hope physiologically. Good luck!

Dave, Thanks. Hopefully you won't catch too much grief for your outspoken pride. I do have a couple of follow up questions.

1.) Congrats on your improvement. Do you think that the HRM training was a primary driver leading to this improvement, or do you think it was just consistent running and you just happened to be using an HRM?

2.) Typically, it takes a little bit to get to a certain rate, and then, as you run the same pace, it rises from there. So, let's say I wanted to do the AT workout. 80% is 166bpm, so I tear off quickly to get to 166 within 30sec (otherwise, it could take almost half the interval to get there). Once I get there, I have to slow down a lot, otherwise I'll just keep on climbing into the 180s. This is weird. Or, do you speed up during the last minute or so of your rest, so that you start near the desired HR?

3.) I am sure you've noticed how drastically hills affect HR. Keeping with the 166, I would have to crawl up a hill, or I would have to almost sprint down a hill. Do you speed up or slow down to keep it at the preplanned rate?

Lance Armstrong's consultant/spokesman stated that he was

doing his LT work at 87% of maximum heartrate.

Some Kenyans seem to be training AT+. Is this a function of

of the enhanced lactate buffering and low ammonia production

What is the relation between hydrogen ion and ammonia

production?

Fred - HAHAHAHAHA!!! That rules...

Paula Radcliffe uses one for every run ....apparently

You should be running at an effort that puts you into the desired heartrate zone after a period of time. For example, if you were trying to run 5-minute repeats at 90-95% of MHR, you would want to run at an effort that would get you there after about 3 minutes, and it should hold there. You would be getting 2 minutes at that rate plus the heartrate would be increasing up to that point.

I once tried an experiment with a HRM where I ran a tempo run for 5 miles. On the first day, I tried to get to the appropriate heartrate as fast as possible. As you noted, you get there by running hard early and then you have to slow down.

A few days later, I ran at an effort that would get me into the proper rate at one-mile. I was 15 seconds slower over the first mile, but I ended up running about 40 seconds overall for the 5 miles.

Doug wrote:

A few days later, I ran at an effort that would get me into the proper rate at one-mile. I was 15 seconds slower over the first mile, but I ended up running about 40 seconds overall for the 5 miles.

40 seconds faster, I presume?

40 seconds for 5 miles!! Holy shit!! I need to start wearing my heart rate monitor more!!

whats wrong with using a hrm to make sure you run easy?

every aspect of training is based on heart rate.

recovery 70-75%of mhr

tempo 80-90% of mhr

max vo2 95%of mhr, rest until hr is 60%of mhr.

do you think people just made up the idea of tempos and max vo2 and recovery runs? its all based on research done by exercise physiologists, and a lot of it is based on hr.

do you need a hr monitor? no. but will it give you the most effective workouts for you? yes.

Good point DII, the rests do seem a bit long. The reason I take long rests is because I'm training for the mile. My goal is to train to feel comfortable and relaxed at 90% for the first 2-3 minutes of the race, so that I can confidentally be competitive over the remainding distance of the mile.

If I were training for the 5K, I'd reverse the rest and the surge. I'd do 5 minutes on with a 3 minute rest. Or I'd do 4 minutes on with a 2 minute rest.

Closet-

Great questions. Let me tackle them one at a time.

1. Both. I believe that consistency is the cornerstone to improvement at distance running. Obviously, that's a no brainer. I, also, believe that the HRM has helped me be as consistent as possible because I'm accurately training at the appropriate effort level. By training at the appropriate effort level I have successfully been able to avoid injury and illness. I now focus on effort level exclusively and let improvement come as it will.

2. Keep in mind that our heart rate does NOT directly always map to effort level. The most accurate way to track effort level is by VO2. Unfortunately, VO2 is extremely difficult to measure outside of labs. Our heart rate is a close second, but much easier to measure with current technology. That said, there are little variations you must watch out for. The culprit you allude to is the discreptancy between your beginning HR and your ending HR if you maintain the same pace. The 2 guilty parties are stroke volume and fatigue. What happends when you initially speed up is that your heart immediately responds by increasing the volume of blood pumped more quickly than how often it beats. Eventually, your heart beats catch up and the stroke volume decreases. Second, you're fatiguing so your HR will increase. I recommend experiment with steady paces that will put you at your desired goals by the end of the repeat.

3. Save hills for hill workouts. Try to do your surges on flat terrain. I do most of my running on a toepath along the Raritan River in NJ. It's beautiful, shaded, and most importantly flat!

I hope this helps.

7x2 min with 4 min rest?

Thanks Dave, for your answers. I am pretty familiar with the working out HR-to-VO2 max correlation stuff. What is most interesting to me is that you've actually run by the thing AND you have found it beneficial (helping you remain injury & illness free). This has merit as many probably have the propensity to work a little too hard before they are ready for it... maybe the HRM would help them.

runX3, what's up? Dave already explained why his workouts have seemed to have too short of interval and too long of rest, and it seemed reasonable enough to me. Also, as to your question on why I don't want to hear about using an HRM for an easy run... well, I just think that using one's own sensory data has a place in the big scheme of things, and how hard can it be to tell if you are running easy or not? The distinction between a high-end tempo run and a vo2 workout can be blurry, but an easy run... I hope I know what an easy run feels like without a moniter. Also, I don't think that the moniter is even that good (compared to sense) for easy runs. Have you ever had an extremely hard workout one day, so that 70-75%HR (as calced Dave's way) was actually kind of tough the next day. I have. Or, how about the easy run a couple days after a marathon? Are you going to run 70-75%? I doubt it. Lastly, on another thread (Japanese Marathoners), it has been noted how easy some of these elites runners run (Morceli included - 10min pace??) from time to time. 10min pace for Morceli (probably even today) puts him under 60% guaranteed. I doubt he is trying to hit 60%, nor do I bet he would up the pace to get him to 70-75%... He is just running easy... no HRM needed for that.