Training Log for a 2:30ish Boston Marathon 2018

I'd try to get more work at your 15k pace if I were in your position. I think half marathon pace does too little for you for the energy invested in the workout.

In any event, your volume is impressive and will go a long way towards carrying the day for you.

Smoove wrote:

I have an unusually aggressive race schedule. Houston Half and local 5k in January. Gasparilla and local 4 miler in February. Local 10k and Gate Roger Run 15k (my true measuring stick for Boston) in March. Houston will establish my goal, Gate will affirm it.

I'm a 1990s runner - we raced every weekend.

Dang! That's an impressive race schedule! Kudos, sir!

Why do you run on the treadmill so much? Why not do your workouts on the road? the 8M tempo at MP/HMP seems solid. Not sure how the treadmill tempo compares to a road tempo but I'd suggest you hit the pavement if possible. I also think you shouldn't do more than one tempo per week/2 weeks. Do a fartlek instead with the recovery portions at a solid pace, like 6:15-6:30s while the faster bits are all under MP. Also, why the 1mi warmup before a progression run that starts at 8 minute pace? you're better off doing a 1mi cooldown than the warmup.

sjkaswewre wrote:

Goal is a spring marathon below six minute pace. My pr is 2:38 from three years back. I ran 2:43 last year and 2:44 two years ago. This will be a much longer buildup because I started running 110+ mile weeks around the same time at the end of September but will be continuing to March instead of racing by this time.

Typical week has been something like this (doubles on weekdays, singles on weekends):

Wow, that's hard work. Is it all very slow pace? I'd think you could get to 5:59 pace with less work and a shorter buildup. Long build-ups have risk. Burnout and injury.

HI herewegoagain, I just saw your postings. I've been online for a bit.

Let me come back to this later today, as I thibk it's more than a brief onliner.

How did the Nationals club xc go for you is one question I'd like to know. How did it go for you and the after effects?

Smoove wrote:

I'd try to get more work at your 15k pace if I were in your position. I think half marathon pace does too little for you for the energy invested in the workout.

In any event, your volume is impressive and will go a long way towards carrying the day for you.

Why 15k pace?

last week's training was again, not marathon specific in any way.

Took monday off because I was kinda busy but mainly just felt like I needed a day off. I don't plan rest days but probably take about one per month. My thought is that rest days are contagious and I am much more likely to have a bad week if I skip a day.

I did 7x1min pickups on tuesday. didn't try to force the pace as it was dark out and I find it hard to run fast in the dark so I ran like 5:20 pace. Jogged 5 miles or so the rest of the week before running a 50k trail race on Saturday. I was probably the 2nd fastest guy there but I didn't get in enough electrolytes during the race and faded. Wouldn't call it a bonk as I was still able to keep up sub-8 minute pace but should've been rolling 6:xx on that terrain. Placed 6th in about 4:10, probably was fit enough to run 3:55ish which is a shame.

So this next week I'll be taking a rest week. Will still run most days if not all days but just jogging, maybe with some strides and maybe a 90min run over the weekend.

It's an attempt to get some threshold work in. You do a bit of it, but it's a little slower than convention would suggest and your rest tends to be on the long side. Infigure some quicker, more stressful work will give you a good bump and offset the longer rest periods.

Good to see some updates coming in. Well done in the 50k!

I have been working on form and just getting used to running faster again. Still a long way from even any AnT work - marathon pace is still hard work on the legs, even at lower HRs.

But I started the month at 6:40 pace for 12.4M and last week was 6:22/3 pace. HR still over 10bpm under goal MPHR.

Hoping to get close to 6:15 pace this Saturday.

Goal pace for LA is sub 6. So this is a good start for me and is greatly encouraging.

I have been working on form and just getting used to running faster again. Still a long way from even any AnT work - marathon pace is still hard work on the legs, even at lower HRs.

My problem too. GMP is hard work.

Upped mileage, but going backwards and slower. 6:30s were easier before the mileage bump. Looking to run low 6:00. I could do 6:40 for 12.4M, that'd be ok. 6:20, forget it.

slower runner wrote:

I have been working on form and just getting used to running faster again. Still a long way from even any AnT work - marathon pace is still hard work on the legs, even at lower HRs.

My problem too. GMP is hard work.

Upped mileage, but going backwards and slower. 6:30s were easier before the mileage bump. Looking to run low 6:00. I could do 6:40 for 12.4M, that'd be ok. 6:20, forget it.

Somebody else in my situation! Poor you! LOL!

I have actually lowered mileage for a few weeks while increasing pace. Less to do with pace and more to do with changes in form - don't want to end up injured. Not been in injured for 6 or 7 years. It's a nice streak to have. What fear is not so much injury per se as a niggle that forces me to back off on the faster stuff. That's the most likely slip up.

Mileage currently in the 80-100mpw range. Hoping to get back up to 120-160 range in the new year.

The key is to just keep edging faster a few days a week. The body cannot adapt to going faster unless it actually runs faster. Shorter efforts if need be.

I was scheduled to do a workout on Tues and a shorter one on Thurs this week. Tues was sucking so I bailed 2M in. Did a decent workout on Wednesday instead. 1 less workout but faster - these are the kind of decisions that keep us slower runners moving forwards.

If I keep progressing I am confident of going sub 6 pace. The trick is to have the consistency to keep progressing. Always better to do a bit less than do a bit too much.

Pantman wrote:

The trick is to have the consistency to keep progressing. Always better to do a bit less than do a bit too much.

Exactly this!

The young guns want crazy workout glory every week. Doesn't often pan out best over months.

Smoove wrote:

It's an attempt to get some threshold work in. You do a bit of it, but it's a little slower than convention would suggest and your rest tends to be on the long side. Infigure some quicker, more stressful work will give you a good bump and offset the longer rest periods.

What threshold? Aerobic? Anerobic? Lactic?

Pantman wrote:

I have been working on form and just getting used to running faster again. Still a long way from even any AnT work - marathon pace is still hard work on the legs, even at lower HRs.

But I started the month at 6:40 pace for 12.4M and last week was 6:22/3 pace. HR still over 10bpm under goal MPHR.

Hoping to get close to 6:15 pace this Saturday.

Goal pace for LA is sub 6. So this is a good start for me and is greatly encouraging.

If marathon pace is hard on the legs, maybe it isn’t marathon pace?

Lactate threshold or anaerobic threshold which I consider the same thing. Pretty sure aerobic threshold is the same thing too. What do you consider to be the difference between those paces to be? Do any of them mean anything other than the point at which waste products associated with the use of lactic acid as an energy source begin to accumulate?

Huh how? wrote:

Pantman wrote:

I have been working on form and just getting used to running faster again. Still a long way from even any AnT work - marathon pace is still hard work on the legs, even at lower HRs.

But I started the month at 6:40 pace for 12.4M and last week was 6:22/3 pace. HR still over 10bpm under goal MPHR.

Hoping to get close to 6:15 pace this Saturday.

Goal pace for LA is sub 6. So this is a good start for me and is greatly encouraging.

If marathon pace is hard on the legs, maybe it isn’t marathon pace?

Fair enough. Marathon effort or HR would be better than pace.

If you read back, I am coming from a background of very high mileage and very low intensity - last year I got to low 7s at 100bpm (although not that fit now). So I can run very easily with regards to HR, perceived exertion and breathing, and yet the muscular fatigue gets to me at faster paces.

So I am talking about marathon *effort* - aerobic threshold / MAF / steady state - that whole deal (or just below). It will take a while for the legs to get used to running that fast, but eventually I *should* be able to adapt and extend the speed endurance to run that effort for (most of) a marathon.

Saturday MP workouts so far:

#1 - 6:43 pace out (6.2M) / 6:46 back (4.6M)

#2 - 6:42 out / 6:38 back (6.2M each way)

#3 - 6:25 / 6:20 (6.2M each way)

#4 (today) - 6:09 / 6:16 (out 7M, back 4.6M)

Effort level still lower than I hope to hold on race day.

Smoove wrote:

Lactate threshold or anaerobic threshold which I consider the same thing. Pretty sure aerobic threshold is the same thing too. What do you consider to be the difference between those paces to be? Do any of them mean anything other than the point at which waste products associated with the use of lactic acid as an energy source begin to accumulate?

Err they all are different and it’s lactate acid in this case not lactic.

Lactate is accumulating in the blood before lactate threshold. Lactate threshold refers to the pace where the volume of lactate in the blood reaches 4 mmol / liter. This pace is where the rate of accumulation becomes exponential. It’s the “redline” pace. And around what you could run for 1 hr. 15k pace is going to be faster than LT pace for many letsrunners. Running “threshold” as 15k pace could do some harm as the athlete would be past that magical tipping point.

Aerobic threshold is where lactate begins to accumulate above resting levels and is about 80% of LT pace or roughly what you could run for 2 hours.

Anaerobic threshold refers to the pace where glycogen becomes the predominant source of fuel from fat.

I think your injecting a degree of specificity into a set of terms that's fairly imprecise, but, in any event, the suggested pace (close to 15k pace for you) shoould have been a clue that I was referring to lactate threshold pace.

Seems like your trying to make a bigger point perhaps; I have no idea. If you've got it all figured out already, good for you.