NY Times Article: Marathoners may not need more miles, but instead need to hit the gym for strength training of legs

Sara Palin wrote:

wejo wrote:

"Gym training,” including the use of machines and free weights to develop strength and power in the muscles of your legs, “can very much help to prepare muscles for the stress imposed by these long races,” Dr. del Corso says.

Umm. Have you ever heard of Jordan Hasay?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZeCdMRH_Vf/

Good night! I gotsta work on my legs :( Jordan puts me to shame :(

well,. wrote:

Real Lyfe Nobodee wrote:

Explain to me how Kenyan and Ethiopian runners hold over 90 of the top 100 marathon times ever ran and they don't lift weights.

I'll wait.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFLUqMH_a6c

Bekele does weights, Geb does weights, Renato claims Kipchoge and Kipsang do weights but not 2 moths out from a marathon race. But from what I have seen, it is more of a circuit type training with treadmill running mixed in (might be raining outside).

that's it right there..you get it!!

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

well,. wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFLUqMH_a6c

Bekele does weights, Geb does weights, Renato claims Kipchoge and Kipsang do weights but not 2 moths out from a marathon race. But from what I have seen, it is more of a circuit type training with treadmill running mixed in (might be raining outside).

Personally my problem was always upper body bulk. My observation is that you need to do at least one legs session per month to avoid breaking down every 3 months (I'm always breaking down).

My undergrad research looked at blood lactate profiles with different strength training regimens. The conclusion was when you include both concentric+eccentric loading (rather than concentric alone), you produce more blood lactate and consequently greater growth hormone release. Eccentric loading is muscle lengthening- resisting the movement back, or as applied to running ~hard downhill training.

My muscle phys professor in grad school studied eccentric loading- essentially running mice on a downhill treadmill and studying the muscle damage and protective effect. Won't forget his advice- all you need is one good, hard downhill session to protect the legs for an extended time and prevent cramping. Whether you get the "protective effect" from strength training, hard downhill training, and/or even from back-to-back marathons it should all help due to the benefits of eccentric loading.

You can lift hard or run hard. You can’t do both. Unless you do CrossFit. Those guys can flip a tire up a hill while running 6:00 pace.

You definitely have to come back with a massive post on this

jaguar1 wrote:

My undergrad research looked at blood lactate profiles with different strength training regimens. The conclusion was when you include both concentric+eccentric loading (rather than concentric alone), you produce more blood lactate and consequently greater growth hormone release. Eccentric loading is muscle lengthening- resisting the movement back, or as applied to running ~hard downhill training.

My muscle phys professor in grad school studied eccentric loading- essentially running mice on a downhill treadmill and studying the muscle damage and protective effect. Won't forget his advice- all you need is one good, hard downhill session to protect the legs for an extended time and prevent cramping. Whether you get the "protective effect" from strength training, hard downhill training, and/or even from back-to-back marathons it should all help due to the benefits of eccentric loading.

Maybe I'm having a brain fart here, but what common strength training modalities don't include both concentric and eccentric loading? I don't think people are really looking to break out a elliptical machine or hand bike as strength training to improve their marathons.

The forces are greatest on a hard downhill run, but literally any running has a significant eccentric component.

Protect the legs in what way? 'Strength Training' has been shown to increase bone density, connective tissue strength, muscle tension (key to resisting eccentric motions in the muscles and shifting said eccentric action to the tendons, which is highly desirable),neuromuscular recruitment and firing patterns, and of course hormonal responses. I can semi-recall reading an article about the benefits of occasional (monthly?) hard downhill sprints, and definitely remember resistance to cramping being one of the benefits along with a couple other things I can't remember off-hand. What else am I forgetting, because the gist of the article I read in no way was suggesting a heavy overlap with strength training (or even more consistent multi-jump/bounding training).

*Not directed at jaguar1*

It blows my mind topics like this still come up all the time. Literally any legitimate coaching education program will teach you the benefits to strength training. If you just read up on running training, most of the best books on the subject have an entire chapter dedicated to the benefits of it. Anecdotally, a preponderance of the top level athletes across all Olympic distances do it. Yet here on the LRC half the posts about strength training are "run more miles", "run hills", or "lifting will make you bulky". Absolutely mind-bottling.

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For example:

Tania TIGER-Kittenâ„¢ says:

DO IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(It is not a good idea to make Tania TIGER-Kittenâ„¢ mad.)

like to knock that goofy grin off his face!

What a waste of a thread.

A completely idiotic article, where they just made random crap up with not even any attempt at evidence, and then lots of people spewing off their own pet theories about their own training regardless.

Someone better show Eliud Kipchoge that article ASAP. What a fool, running 110-120 mpw when he could just have just done strength training instead of such high mileage. Just imagine how much faster he could have been.

robert678 wrote:

Someone better show Eliud Kipchoge that article ASAP. What a fool, running 110-120 mpw when he could just have just done strength training instead of such high mileage. Just imagine how much faster he could have been.

Yes. Because we are all Kipchoge clones.

Elites aren't most of us.

I was fortunate to have attended a summer running camp for 3 years in a row in the mid 1980s. Arthur Lydiard was the guest speaker. He stressed that running hills would develop your leg muscles. He also had specific drills to do while ascending a hill. I followed his advice and was pleased by my results. I was a successful high school coach who stressed hill training as well.

robert678 wrote:

Someone better show Eliud Kipchoge that article ASAP. What a fool, running 110-120 mpw when he could just have just done strength training instead of such high mileage. Just imagine how much faster he could have been.

110-120mpw is a low mileage for an elite marathon runner.

You should ask why he does not run 150+mpw.

Magness recommends weight training in his book. (Relatively heavy weight, low reps to avoid adding weight.) Salazar's runners lift weights. Obviously some coaches think weight training for strength provides benefits you don't get from hills, etc.

Oh gee, just what I always wanted, the British experience from the West London underclass . Looks like the geniuses ? who developed the posting system cannot decipher your trademarks, personally I'm shattered. ????

?this is not what I posted. This system is stuffed.

Telling it like it is wrote:

An all-out marathon is bad for the body. We have been saying that for many years. The sad thing is many young kids ruin their bodies by running one.

The old saying is "I know you can do it, but should you?"

Mostly true. But there are always exceptions. I ran one when I was 15. I ran competitively after that for 30 years. I only just recently stopped competing as a choice not because of injuries.