*In a whining, mocking voice
"Or a cheaaater."
Not defending Korir, but not every good runner is a cheater.
*In a whining, mocking voice
"Or a cheaaater."
Not defending Korir, but not every good runner is a cheater.
disgraceful_admin wrote:
800ftw. wrote:Probably the fact that he's moving faster.
He's moving faster, but we assumed "constant aerobic/anaerobic ability". Which means he's going to tire out faster at 43.90 pace than 45 pace.
?
If he ran a 45s 400m he passes through 390m after 43.9s of running.
You haven't worked out anything to do with aerobic ability or what not.
43.9/45 x 400 = 390.22
Calculo is saying if you get the athlete stronger they can move faster and complete 400m in 43.9s without any added fitness (nonsense but whatever).
You are saying that the athlete with his new found strength will only be able to run for 390m at his previous 400m race pace? Why? You think the athlete will get SLOWER with more power?
800ftw. wrote:
disgraceful_admin wrote:He's moving faster, but we assumed "constant aerobic/anaerobic ability". Which means he's going to tire out faster at 43.90 pace than 45 pace.
?
If he ran a 45s 400m he passes through 390m after 43.9s of running.
You haven't worked out anything to do with aerobic ability or what not.
43.9/45 x 400 = 390.22
Calculo is saying if you get the athlete stronger they can move faster and complete 400m in 43.9s without any added fitness (nonsense but whatever).
You are saying that the athlete with his new found strength will only be able to run for 390m at his previous 400m race pace? Why? You think the athlete will get SLOWER with more power?
Quite feasible.
More power = more energy demands.
More energy demands = more lactate production, since we assume constant aerobic/anaerobic ability.
More lactate production = more tying up near end of race, and sooner.
More tying up = slower times.
This is why you don't see Usain Bolt running sub-4:20 despite what many here believe
Those of you who make cheating allegations based only upon performance, help us out. Just type up a list of fastest allowable times so who know who to call a cheater.
disgraceful_admin wrote:
800ftw. wrote:?
If he ran a 45s 400m he passes through 390m after 43.9s of running.
You haven't worked out anything to do with aerobic ability or what not.
43.9/45 x 400 = 390.22
Calculo is saying if you get the athlete stronger they can move faster and complete 400m in 43.9s without any added fitness (nonsense but whatever).
You are saying that the athlete with his new found strength will only be able to run for 390m at his previous 400m race pace? Why? You think the athlete will get SLOWER with more power?
Quite feasible.
More power = more energy demands.
More energy demands = more lactate production, since we assume constant aerobic/anaerobic ability.
More lactate production = more tying up near end of race, and sooner.
More tying up = slower times.
This is why you don't see Usain Bolt running sub-4:20 despite what many here believe
I mean, you can just admit your maths was off.
Of course a 400m guy who gets stronger and can produce more power will lower his 400m time, not get worse by about 1.5 seconds.
All your maths suggests is that no matter how strong the runner gets, he will only be able to run at his 45s 400m pace for varying distances. He will not improve one bit.
That makes absolutely no sense and you can't justify it.
I'm glad you don't coach a tour de France team with the idea that increased power production automatically decreases range in a linear manner, meaning that your athlete can never improve past what he has already achieved.
To say they have no weights in a country where rugby is the #1 sport is absurd.
No machines? Use free weights.
800ftw. wrote:
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:Weights just bulk you up and slow you down, Calculo. Too many weights just make you stiffer and ruin your range of motion. The next day you are always sore unless you are on a strength boosting/recovery aiding PED.
I can't believe it's possible, but you are more clueless than calculo...
Do any of you know-it-alls actually train in real life??
You've certainly never lifted weights. Makes you sore haha. Maybe if you've never done them before!
What are you? Like 17 or something? I can't believe that you don't realize the concept of maximal oxygen uptake in proportion to body weight hence the African running revolution.
You must have tremendous genetics if your weight training doesn't interfere with your following day's ability to do a hard run. Personally, core work, stability exercises, planking and hamstring drops have helped me just as much as years of weights. But some people may thrive doing weights, but they are the few.
As for Calculo, he is suggesting that Renato substitute something that obviously on average has worked for something else that might not. Actually there are gyms in Kenya, the Robertsons are always doing weights, yet they are always injured.
Bad Wigins wrote:
To say they have no weights in a country where rugby is the #1 sport is absurd.
No machines? Use free weights.
Soccer is the #1 sport in Kenya.
Everybody plays recreational soccer in middle school/high school.
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
calculo wrote:it's about stride length
now, this isn't just about leg length but obviously that does set an initial baseline - taller the guy, longer the stride
however, stride length isn't technically an anatomical measurement, it's a trajectory like those ole cannonball problems in
HS physics - projectile motion
the stride is the projectile motion of the guy or trajectory
now say, a 45.00 has 200cm stride & done no weights
if he does lot of weights, his leg length obviously stays same but his "muzzle velocity" increases from all that leg pressing
( assuming mass doesn't beef up too much - you can weight-train to increase strength without bulking up - otherwise weightlifters/powerlifters coudn't lift heavier weights & stay in same weight category ! )
he can push off the ground more powerfully & increases his trajectory
it may increase by say 2.5 - 5.0cm
this -> assuming his aerobic/anaerobic ability remains constant which shoud be possible for maturing/developing guy, his theoretical 45.00 quickens to
- 45.00 * ( 200 / 202.5 ) = 44.44 !!
- 45.00 * ( 200 / 205.0 ) = 43.90 !!!
these are rough'n'ready figures to demonstrate a principle
Weights just bulk you up and slow you down, Calculo. Too many weights just make you stiffer and ruin your range of motion. The next day you are always sore unless you are on a strength boosting/recovery aiding PED.
I'm not sure who you've lifted with, but it certainly wasn't a smart strength & conditioning coach. Stiffness and decreased range of motion are caused by half-reps, or improper range of motion in the weight room. In my experience both as an athlete and a coach, full ROM weight training has not only improved the strength and power output of the athlete, but also form on the track and efficiency in running. The loaded ROM helps the athlete to gain mobility as well as stability under the tension. Ideally, an elite runner has heightened body awareness, which comes from variance of movements and practicing good form.
And if you're too soft to run with moderate soreness and trust the process, knowing it'll make you stronger for race day, that's a personal problem specific to yourself. Not the entire non-PED athlete population.
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
800ftw. wrote:I can't believe it's possible, but you are more clueless than calculo...
Do any of you know-it-alls actually train in real life??
You've certainly never lifted weights. Makes you sore haha. Maybe if you've never done them before!
What are you? Like 17 or something? I can't believe that you don't realize the concept of maximal oxygen uptake in proportion to body weight hence the African running revolution.
You must have tremendous genetics if your weight training doesn't interfere with your following day's ability to do a hard run. Personally, core work, stability exercises, planking and hamstring drops have helped me just as much as years of weights. But some people may thrive doing weights, but they are the few.
As for Calculo, he is suggesting that Renato substitute something that obviously on average has worked for something else that might not. Actually there are gyms in Kenya, the Robertsons are always doing weights, yet they are always injured.
I don't have tremendous genetics, you just get used to weight training and it doesn't make you as sore as when you first started.
It's called adaptation.
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:Weights just bulk you up and slow you down, Calculo
is this a joke ???
what part of "weightlifters lift heavier weights & stay in same weight category" did you not understand ???
therefore they can increase strength without bulking up
did you not comprehend the logic ?!
Too many weights just make you stiffer and ruin your range of motion
eh ???
tell that to Korir who has gone from 1'47 to 1'43.1 in consecutive seasons & he puts lot of that down to weights
The next day you are always sore unless you are on a strength boosting/recovery aiding PED
eh ???
is this a joke ???
you are stating every runner who starts a serious weights programm needs to be on dope ???
utter nonsense
Ben L Wrong wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:To say they have no weights in a country where rugby is the #1 sport is absurd.
No machines? Use free weights.
Soccer is the #1 sport in Kenya.
Everybody plays recreational soccer in middle school/high school.
I will let one of the Kenyan posters splain to you about Kenyan rugby.
800ftw. wrote:
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:What are you? Like 17 or something? I can't believe that you don't realize the concept of maximal oxygen uptake in proportion to body weight hence the African running revolution.
You must have tremendous genetics if your weight training doesn't interfere with your following day's ability to do a hard run. Personally, core work, stability exercises, planking and hamstring drops have helped me just as much as years of weights. But some people may thrive doing weights, but they are the few.
As for Calculo, he is suggesting that Renato substitute something that obviously on average has worked for something else that might not. Actually there are gyms in Kenya, the Robertsons are always doing weights, yet they are always injured.
I don't have tremendous genetics, you just get used to weight training and it doesn't make you as sore as when you first started.
It's called adaptation.
Do some weights just don't go overboard on them, they have more rehab value personally. Hamstring curls may actually stuff your hamstrings, I should have clarified this earlier, eccentric exercises are what I advocate nowadays. But it depends on the athlete.
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:What are you? Like 17 or something? I can't believe that you don't realize the concept of maximal oxygen uptake in proportion to body weight hence the African running revolution
no
the african revolution started because it is the the only way that guys can make $$$ & they train as best as told to do so
You must have tremendous genetics if your weight training doesn't interfere with your following day's ability to do a hard run
no
it's called adaptation
in college i weight-trained x4/week & hard workouts & my hobbyjogging 1 mile improved by 30s from rubbish to semi-rubbish for college level over 5y & i never increased my mileage ever during those 5y & never the speed of my workouts
& i analysed/trained like a scientist :
- exact same mileage for 5y at same pace
- lot of hard weight-training, x4/week
end result was improvement of mile time by 30s from rubbish to semi-rubbish for college level
Personally, core work, stability exercises, planking and hamstring drops have helped me just as much as years of weights
it didn't help me
hard hours in multigym helped me
But some people may thrive doing weights, but they are the few
it works for Korir...
As for Calculo, he is suggesting that Renato substitute something that obviously on average has worked for something else that might not
eh ???
i suggest you read canova more carefully
he has been on record here as stating that if he coud train Kenyans with the back-up/facilities that guy like mo gets he woud be producing significant number of 3'25 guys !!!
canova does the best he can with primitive facilities/back-up
i was shocked to read that he says vivian cheruyiot, one of greatest runners of all time with buckets of medals, including golds & fabulous 29'32 for silver has never done any weights in her life !!!???
it is inconceivable she woudn't have been even a fraction faster if she had done just 1 seesion/week of serious weights in her career
paula did plenty of weights
Actually there are gyms in Kenya, the Robertsons are always doing weights, yet they are always injured
Korir said he didn't have any weights facilities, so clearly the zanes went out of their way to find some, which Korir said weren't present for him
IItttffgfgfyyt wrote:Furthermore, 1:43.10 is excellent, but not out of this world. It only ranks him 44th all time, behind Murphy, Symmonds...
he is running on fumes
too long a season already by kenyan trials where he looked absolutely whacked in winning it in 1'43-high
he looked really, really spent after that run
from years of observational experience, that run looked to me to have finished him for the year, so to run 1'43.1 after was quite a surprise !
not surprising seeing as he started off with a 600iWR at start of year & some incredible 400s open & relay !!!
he ran a 43.34 relay which with usual 0.7s conversion was a 44-flat open !!!
that run in itself for a 400/800 guy couda killed him off for the season !!!
his fantastic early season 1'43.7 with huge -ve splits wouda been ~ 1'42-flat with 2s +ve splits & good height of pacer
this can be seen from Ajee who hugely -ve split a 1'57.7 to win trials & in monaco got a +ve split race & ran over 2s faster !!!
his monaco run off fumes, with ~ 2.75m extra on bends, wouda been route-1 of
~ 1'42.7+
he is about 3/4s slower than he was early season
The 800m is in a down year (at this point), which explains why he is the WL right now
more case of brutal number of hard runs in NCAA season nearly killing him off
With his speed, form... it is difficult to believe that he will not be a sub 1:42 guy in the next 12 months
from that early season 1'43.7+, if he'd not had the huge number of hard number of runs he'd had in college, he woud be there right now
quite clearly he has only 1 meet left in his legs & he needs really easy qualifying in WC to have anything left for final
go to WC, try your best & quit for the year
i see absolutely nothing left in his legs for a zurich or brussels or rieti after WC...
Capt. J. Kirk wrote:
44s for 400m and 1:43.1 for 800m after one year's training. No bloody way is that plausible without help. It is a total joke.
No it is not a joke. It is a sport run by corrupt people. This is deliberate surely you would know by now.
Fentrekker wrote:
Those of you who make cheating allegations based only upon performance, help us out. Just type up a list of fastest allowable times so who know who to call a cheater.
Easy. Just take the fastest times, by a certain kind of athlete, for each event. For example, Christophe Lemaitre and Dafne Schippers in the 100m and 200m, or Fermin Cacho and Laura Muir for the 1500m. You get the idea.
calculo wrote:
IItttffgfgfyyt wrote:Furthermore, 1:43.10 is excellent, but not out of this world. It only ranks him 44th all time, behind Murphy, Symmonds...he is running on fumes
too long a season already by kenyan trials where he looked absolutely whacked in winning it in 1'43-high
he looked really, really spent after that run
from years of observational experience, that run looked to me to have finished him for the year, so to run 1'43.1 after was quite a surprise !
not surprising seeing as he started off with a 600iWR at start of year & some incredible 400s open & relay !!!
he ran a 43.34 relay which with usual 0.7s conversion was a 44-flat open !!!
that run in itself for a 400/800 guy couda killed him off for the season !!!
his fantastic early season 1'43.7 with huge -ve splits wouda been ~ 1'42-flat with 2s +ve splits & good height of pacer
this can be seen from Ajee who hugely -ve split a 1'57.7 to win trials & in monaco got a +ve split race & ran over 2s faster !!!
his monaco run off fumes, with ~ 2.75m extra on bends, wouda been route-1 of
~ 1'42.7+
he is about 3/4s slower than he was early season
The 800m is in a down year (at this point), which explains why he is the WL right now
more case of brutal number of hard runs in NCAA season nearly killing him off
With his speed, form... it is difficult to believe that he will not be a sub 1:42 guy in the next 12 months
from that early season 1'43.7+, if he'd not had the huge number of hard number of runs he'd had in college, he woud be there right now
quite clearly he has only 1 meet left in his legs & he needs really easy qualifying in WC to have anything left for final
go to WC, try your best & quit for the year
i see absolutely nothing left in his legs for a zurich or brussels or rieti after WC...
Mr Calculo, on closer inspection of the described race I cannot seem to find any point where Korir ran in lane 2. Not even when he went to pass at the 600m mark.
Ajee Wilson though might actually an example of a person running extra distance in the women's 800m.
number one problem is you actually read all of vent/calculos moronic drivel.
rule number one: do not ever read vent/calculo's entire reply, it will only make you dumber.
i can sum up what he says and you can read my interpretation, it wont waste nearly as much time and you will see just how dumb it really is....here goes
Is this a joke? drivel snurff barf fart gargle moron
intrinsic, basic ~ 5m wide!!!! barf sh*t slurp drivel
jim ryun jizz in my pants slurp slurp drivel basic ~ 3'24!!!
suicide first ~ 4.8m!!!! is this joke? drivel fart gasp puke moron drivel
basic gargle slurp ~ 1'42+!!!
do you not know anything? drivel basic intrinsic moron f*ck me im annoying
i agree with spencer wrote:
number one problem is you actually read all of vent/calculos moronic drivel.
rule number one: do not ever read vent/calculo's entire reply, it will only make you dumber.
i can sum up what he says and you can read my interpretation, it wont waste nearly as much time and you will see just how dumb it really is....here goes
Is this a joke? drivel snurff barf fart gargle moron
intrinsic, basic ~ 5m wide!!!! barf sh*t slurp drivel
jim ryun jizz in my pants slurp slurp drivel basic ~ 3'24!!!
suicide first ~ 4.8m!!!! is this joke? drivel fart gasp puke moron drivel
basic gargle slurp ~ 1'42+!!!
do you not know anything? drivel basic intrinsic moron f*ck me im annoying
Very funny and spot on!