Road Racing & Training Thread: Week Ending 18 June 2017

Smoove wrote:

As discussed, there is certainly more volatility in the marathon distance equivalents. I still think that is because the race is run so infrequently and the tables assume equally good conditions across, and equal preparation for, all distances.

Good points, my friend.

The only way to become a better runner is to keep running, of course, and to keep thinking. Being a constant "processor," as both of us are, never hurts.

How did your run go today? Mine was in abysmal conditions (86 + 70 + sunny), and I was surprised how decent I felt in the last 2 miles. Went 10.25. The running in a sunny "156" made me think of you.

All the best...

runn3rgirl - good job on the mile. What's your PR? I agree, the race is soooo short after running other things... How did the race go?

slo-twitch - looks like a solid week. That Thursday workout looks brutal. Was it hot, too?

RRR - week looks good. Glad your foot is holding up. Sounds like Friday was a great night. It's exciting to help someone push past their limits, isn't it? My brother-in-law (27 yo, ex-swimmer, soccer-player) has taken up running and it's been awesome seeing him go from a 8:17 pace 8K to running 6:45s in a 5K and yesterday paced him to a 5:15 downhill mile (for the strava challenge).

Smoove (and OR) - I totally agree about that fine-tuned control. I also check 100/200 splits when I want to dial it in. OR, way to put in another solid week. Your consistency amazes me.

Birdwatcher502 - Wow! Sounds like a really interesting race. Big chops for taking it out with the leaders. You've still got the wheels and I look forward to following your sub-14 quest. And might I add... Dang! that's quick.

Darko - Good job on the 5K PR! Thanks for the fun writeup, too. Concise but detailed and fun to follow.

Laughlin - what are you training for?

Smoove - looking good... still. For the 4-miler do you adjust training paces to dial that in or do you stick with 5k paces? I figure you of all people have your paces completely locked in.

pewow - If you want to jump in an all-comers meet in Tucson, there's this:

https://www.tucsonaz.gov/parks/announcement/summer-track-and-field-and-reid-park-runs

. You just described many of my races.

me: 41/m: my week -- more mostly easy with a slight taper for a Saturday 5K. It's starting to heat up here. No goal races to speak of but I'm considering some 8-mile or 10-k types in September/October. I got the Jack Daniels book from Amazon and am going to start consuming.

M - 5

T - 7 in the heat

W - 6 w/ 8x1:00 efforts at 5K goal pace (5:28). hot and rolling on the roads and short efforts so the efforts were variable (5:30/47/44/22/35/24/27/32/29).

T - 4

F - 1

S - 5K: 17:23, solo effort with 2nd place in 20:18.

S - 5 easy, paced my brother-in-law to a mile PR for a strava challenge (288 ft downhill 5:15)

5K race was meant at a shot at 17:08 (5:31) and 17:00 (5:28) but my mind couldn't push my body through the long solo effort on the river path. Splits were 5:30, 5:38, 5:48. Tired but not gassed at the end. I need more practice punishing myself. 17:08 represents my fastest 5K post-HS, and the effort Saturday represents my fastest 5K since April 2, 2000.

runrincerepeat wrote:

Nice weeks Slo and Runn3er gal!

Looking forward to tracking ya'lls training and racing this fall. I decided last night that i was going to set my goals for fall very aggressive for me..judging from past times this year.

16;45 / and sub 35 are my goals.

How interesting. 16:44 and sub 34:59 are *my* goals. Hmmmm...

For the 4 miler, I will slow my pace down by 3 or 4 seconds per mile as compared to what I would try to run for the equivalent 5k, I figure that the difference between 5k pace and 10k pace is about :10 to :12 per mile, so I kind of use that as the basis for guessing at 3 to 4 seconds. In any event, I have actually run a 4 miler recently - back in February of this year, and at this same race in 2015, so I have some general sense of what I am capable of running there.

team 1 - I always appreciate your feedback--thanks. I totally understand the mind/body thing. It is tough. You are a fine runner.

My pr is only 4:55 from college. I only raced the mile maybe 2 or 3 times indoors and rarely run it anymore unless it's at an all comers. I think to be better at all distances it needs to be closer to 4:45. Great job on your 5k. I think you'll hit your fall goals pretty easily. You're already almost there.

team 1 wrote:

runrincerepeat wrote:

Nice weeks Slo and Runn3er gal!

Looking forward to tracking ya'lls training and racing this fall. I decided last night that i was going to set my goals for fall very aggressive for me..judging from past times this year.

16;45 / and sub 35 are my goals.

How interesting. 16:44 and sub 34:59 are *my* goals. Hmmmm...

You have a massssssive lead on me... maybe I can round into shape in the near term and make it a race!

Smoove wrote:

As discussed, there is certainly more volatility in the marathon distance equivalents. I still think that is because the race is run so infrequently and the tables assume equally good conditions across, and equal preparation for, all distances.

The average at the end on this race predictor has all my 2017 times that I have raced to a T. I find it really odd that I raced much better in a 10k than any other distance.

Very interesting. I'm way faster the average column on the short distances but the Cameron column seems like it could work. It's significantly faster for the mile (10s) and 800m (15s). But I know I'm more of a speed guy. I don't have a same-fitness comparison for a large range of distances, however.

team 1 wrote:

Very interesting. I'm way faster the average column on the short distances but the Cameron column seems like it could work. It's significantly faster for the mile (10s) and 800m (15s). But I know I'm more of a speed guy. I don't have a same-fitness comparison for a large range of distances, however.

None of those formulas are even close on mine, but with them averaged out it's a perfect prediction. Some of them are really odd. The VO2 one is prob closest to me but the 200 and 400 are way slower than I think I can run.

Monday - 5 easy

Tuesday - Off

Wednesday - 6 easy

Thursday - 3 easy

Friday - 3 easy

Saturday - 26.2mi in 3:09

Sunday - Off

Spoiler alert for week ending June 25:

Monday - Off

Tuesday - Off

Wednesday - Off

Thursday - Off

Friday - Off, lakeside, likely ~6 reps of 7x1lb curls...RRR style

Saturday - see Friday

Sunday - Off

Debating whether my main summer goal will be in pursuit of running a 5k faster than high school me (only sub 18 needed) or focusing on a last-hurrah-before-the-baby half marathon in August in which the winner usually runs 1:25ish so I might possibly have an outside opportunity to actually race someone in a race instead of just run a race, which could be fun. Feeling way better than I did after my more poorly trained for marathons, but some of the decision will probably be based on how quickly I recover.

Gordon, Congrats on the up-and-comer! Looks like a rough week coming up. Here's one data point -- I've seen people racing 5Ks and 10Ks with strollers. Half marathon might be a bit harder since that's a lot longer for a baby to be strapped into a car seat... that is, if you want to race with the baby vs. take a sabbatical. Fwiw, I'm a couple months behind you in the stroller club (late October).

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

Monday - 5 easy

Tuesday - Off

Wednesday - 6 easy

Thursday - 3 easy

Friday - 3 easy

Saturday - 26.2mi in 3:09

Sunday - Off

Spoiler alert for week ending June 25:

Monday - Off

Tuesday - Off

Wednesday - Off

Thursday - Off

Friday - Off, lakeside, likely ~6 reps of 7x1lb curls...RRR style

Saturday - see Friday

Sunday - Off

Debating whether my main summer goal will be in pursuit of running a 5k faster than high school me (only sub 18 needed) or focusing on a last-hurrah-before-the-baby half marathon in August in which the winner usually runs 1:25ish so I might possibly have an outside opportunity to actually race someone in a race instead of just run a race, which could be fun. Feeling way better than I did after my more poorly trained for marathons, but some of the decision will probably be based on how quickly I recover.

RRR style is more like 12-14! Have fun you deserve it after all that work.

team 1 wrote:

Gordon, Congrats on the up-and-comer! Looks like a rough week coming up. Here's one data point -- I've seen people racing 5Ks and 10Ks with strollers. Half marathon might be a bit harder since that's a lot longer for a baby to be strapped into a car seat... that is, if you want to race with the baby vs. take a sabbatical. Fwiw, I'm a couple months behind you in the stroller club (late October).

Thanks! The plan is to continue training/racing, not sabbatical, but I am making no assumptions about the amount of time or energy I will be able to contribute to running with my first newborn. It certainly won't be priority 1. I was thinking maybe main focus on the half now, then hope I can keep training enough in the fall for the 5k attempts.

My half PR is 1:28 and was 3 weeks into my first foray into >50mpw running in March, with no taper at all, and a 4 minute negative split because I seriously underestimated how much consistently running that much helped my fitness. I don't know if that translates to ~1:25 with a taper like...now that I've finished the marathon cycle, or if I would need a really good/focused recovery and buildup by mid-August to try to get there, but if I'm not in a position to try the fun of competing head to head with a couple guys at the front, I think the 1:26-1:30 range is probably going to be pretty lonely and potentially miserable in a small local August half, even here in northern US.

On the stroller front, I'm told newborn's necks aren't strong enough for the stroller till after several months, so no stroller runs early on? My wife is hoping I will be a stroller runner dad eventually...she's looking forward to some weekend morning peace and quiet she says. Congrats to you as well!

If you don't have the same base as an elite, you have to scale back the workouts to your current fitness level. Classic beginner mistake to try to recreate elite workouts without the appropriate background, then be too burnt out for the next workout. Consistency is goal 1. That's why it's only RRR style.

3 kids and I could never master the jogging stroller, in part maybe because I am a bit of a purist (no music on runs either). I will say, however, that my running got better after kids (although the first 3 months after the first one in particular is really a crap shoot at best).

I am looking forward to hopefully shotgunning a beer with RRR in Houston in January.

Congrats to all who raced last week- Gordon, Darko, team 1, Runnergirl, and BirdWatcher.

I follow Birdwatcher on Strava and was pretty impressed overall, seemed like the race was warmer than "normal"

As for me, just 62 miles of random easy-ish running with some surges, but my running form has been compromised recently due to the knee. I think it has affected my footstrike as my Achilles have been bothering me. If I skip my heel drops, I definitely feel the pain the next day. I'm back to doing them more religiously.

As for the heat discussion, I found this link via a recent LR thread:

http://maximumperformancerunning.blogspot.com/2013/07/temperature-dew-point.html

My performance definitely suffers when it's around a 140+ index.

Mentally struggling as I have not raced anything for almost two months- I may do a mile time trial this week by myself just to get motivated. I need to convince myself that I'm not losing fitness as my performance has been inconsistent- which I'm blaming on the minor injuries and Florida heat/ humidity... I'm definitely off my training plan

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

runrincerepeat wrote:

RRR style is more like 12-14! Have fun you deserve it after all that work.

If you don't have the same base as an elite, you have to scale back the workouts to your current fitness level. Classic beginner mistake to try to recreate elite workouts without the appropriate background, then be too burnt out for the next workout. Consistency is goal 1. That's why it's only RRR style.

HAHA touche ...!!

team 1 - right now I'm working on building a base for some XC (and maybe some road) races in the fall. I felt like I never got the chance to run a really good 8k in college (injuries and low iron issues) so I really want to see what I can do this season now that I'm healthy. Several meets around my neck of the woods (Portland, OR area) have open races and I'd like to jump in some of those. Not sure if you're familiar with these, but Sundodger and the Willamette Invite are a couple I'd like to do. Planning on doing basework until the first part of September.