My quest for sub 1:50 in the 800m

Hi, I recently recovered from foot pain (metatarsal tendinitis), so maybe I have some tips for you.

I developed foot pain after racing a very hilly 15k in flats. After running long fast intervals through the pain once, and running/slipping/sliding in snow shortly after, the pain became unbearable. Even a warm-up routine was too much.

I also prayed it wasn't a fracture, so I visited a physiotherapist, who ruled that out. I got some strengthening exercises (rubber band, balance board), and did a lot of stretching/rolling with a tennis ball. A LOT of rolling with the tennis ball.

I taped my foot before every run, used stability trainers (Adizero Tempo). I ran small (1k) easy (4:30/km) laps and stopped the second I felt pain, then walked home. At first I had to stop after 4 laps. Sometimes I could hold back the pain by wiggling my toes a few times, but I stopped when there was real pain. I built up to 12 laps in a few weeks, then I ran without tape. Then carefully added speedwork. After six weeks my foot had healed completely.

I guess the bottom line is: keep moving but avoid any real pain. Oh, and don't wear casual shoes with a narrow forefoot. Makes your feet cramp up. Wiggle you toes a lot.

Hope this helps, good luck!

CoachB wrote:

Get thee to an exercise bike!

Yeah got on the bike, get on the elliptical, swim!! Cross train 10% more than you'd usually run. I'd also recommend wearing a HR monitor when possible because personally I can have my legs burning on the spin bike whilst my HR is only 130bpm

Is TAR update?

stc wrote:

Is TAR update?

TAR is update. I took about two weeks off at the end of march before going to the podiatrist. I took the break because I was getting concerned about the fact that it felt like the pain was further spreading to my posterior tibial tendon, and my foot was still pretty tender. The time off didn't really make much of a difference, which makes me think it's notreally bone related at all.

The podiatrist is a former running (qualified for olympic trials in the 5k back in the late 70s or early 80s, don't remember which). He didn't seem concerned enough for me to bother with an X-ray or anything. He basically said my ankle is turning in slightly and it's pulling on my posterior tibial tendon which is putting stress on the tendon and the side of the foot. He made a temporary custom insert by gluing felt to the insole of my shoes.

He said that I should at least try to run easy mileage and see how things go. He also reccomended getting some shoes with a little more support. I've run ~30-40 miles each week the past couple weeks, and I'm going back to him Tuesday for a follow-up. My foot does feel better, although not completely better. I've been pretty consistent with foot exercises and heel drops and all of that feels like it's helping a lot, too.

I will keep this updated, but all I'll be doing for a little while is building easy mileage while getting rid of this foot problem.

So I started back up running at the beginning of April after my podiatrist appointment.

Week ending in 4/7: 28 miles

Week ending in 4/14: 41.6

Week ending in 4/21: 45.8

Week ending in 4/28: 48.5

Week ending in 5/5: 52.9

Week ending in 5/12: 35.5 (down week)

Aiming for around 60mpw this week since my down week. I'm not feeling too bad. Had some minor shin splint/lower leg problems but I've gotten rid of them. The plan is to just keep building mileage for a bit and toss in some tempos and easy rep workouts and see if I can get my 5k down this summer/fall.

Is TAR update?

Hey everyone. I've still been running, but it has been unexciting so I haven't been posting much.

So I started back up running at the beginning of April after my podiatrist appointment.

Week ending in 4/7: 28 miles

Week ending in 4/14: 41.6

Week ending in 4/21: 45.8

Week ending in 4/28: 48.5

Week ending in 5/5: 52.9

Week ending in 5/12: 35.5 (down week)

Week ending in 5/19: 49.7

Week ending in 5/26: 58.5

Week ending in 6/2: 57

Week ending in 6/9: 32 (down week)

Week ending in 6/16: 60.4

Week ending in 6/23: 61.1

Week ending in 6/30: 64.9

Week ending in 7/7: 40 (down week)

Week ending in 7/14: 65.4

I've typically been doing one easy aerobic workout a week with one of the better high school kids on the team I help coach. My foot has been manageable but still gets aggravated doing faster work / by wearing more minimal shoes, so I've been focusing on taking my time building up the miles anyways. All the easy mileage has been pretty easy 7:00-7:40 pace. I've been doing occasional hill sprints and strides. I'll hopefully be staying in the 65-70mpw range for a bit so I'd like to start adding in more workouts just to build the aerobic engine for faster work this winter. Nothing is very structured or planned right now, as the most important thing for me is to stay healthy.

I switched to the supernova ST (which is the 'stability' version of the shoe) in April because the podiatrist said I had some over-pronation pulling on my posterior tibial tendon and causing problems in my foot. The new shoes seemed to maybe help a little, but not a whole lot. He wasn't a fan of the really soft (boost) heel in the shoe and said I could use something harder, so I finally caved and ordered a pair of Nike Structure 21s to give a try. I'll see if having a more stable shoe with a harder heel helps anything. I also debated ordering superfeet insoles but I don't really like the idea of relying on stability shoes and insoles, but if it keeps me healthy then I'll take it. Still taking it one day at a time.

Week ending 7/24:

Sunday Ran a local 15km race at a comfortably hard 5:58 pace. Very humid. Didn't feel good.

Monday 7 miles @ 7:25 pace + Lifting

Tuesday 9 miles @ 7:04 pace

Wednesday 1 mile warmup, 2 miles @ 6:07, then 5x3min @ 5:40 with 1min jogging rest.

Thursday AM 5 miles @ 8:00 + Lifting

PM 6.5 miles @ 7:18 pace

Friday 8.2 miles @ 7:30 pace

Saturday 7 miles @7:10 pace with the middle 3 miles @ ~6:00 pace.

Week total: 65 miles.

Have felt okay. I think I'm just slightly tired from the miles and the 15k, so the workouts have been slow and crappy feeling. It's also been pretty humid, but it's like that every summer so no excuses. I got a pair of Nike Structure 21s to see if having more of a firm shoe will help my foot / post tib tendon. So far so good. Foot still bothers me a little but I do like the shoes so I'll keep it up. My plan is to keep up with the mileage decently well and just string together some mediocre easy fitness building workouts.

Since I will be busy with coaching high school XC on weekends, I won't really have a goal race until Novemeber/December. The goal is to build a base and hopefully some durability that will carry over into the winter and spring. I'm targeting an indoor meet at the beginning of December to get a nice 5k PR at. Most of the pack was 14:50-15:35 and I'd like to break 15:30, and it's a 300m track, so it should be a good one. I'm going to start doing more specific work ~10-12 weeks out from the 5k, then take an easy week before aiming on building into mile/800m training for the track season.

BUMP

Alright ya'll, I'm back.

Well anyone who frequents letsrun knows I haven't stopped posting on the boards. Just not about my running.

Well I've had foot pain for about a year now. After a few breaks here and there, the issue still remains. I've seen two different podiatrists and my doctor and had xrays. Xrays came back negative (I know they're not very conclusive). Basically everyone says that I over-pronate slightly and it's stressing my post tib tendon and where it attaches in my foot. Despite some OTC orthotics and some various stability shoes, not much has helped. The pain does not get worse with running, except my abductor hallucis muscle occasionally gets sore after hard/ fast work. I've recently decided to suck it up and just train for the 800m as normal and see this season through, then in the summer take a longer break and cross train and lift and see if a longer break helps, if i'm still having trouble with it. Running does not seem to exacerbate the issue, though, so I will continue to run unless something major comes up.

As for recent racing results; I only have one real one. This past Saturday (1/26/2019) I ran a mile in 4:26 with splits of 70, 69, 66, 60. Did not feel good but took 2nd in my heat despite a lot of lane 2/3 running.

I've only been running 40-55mpw the past few months with some aerobic tempo / CV workouts and gloried strides mixed in, along with semi consistent lifting.

I will start posting weekly training on here again.

Short term goal is to remain (mostly) healthy and try to fix imbalances and foot pain and hopefully break 1:56 this season considering I have not broken 1:58 since the day I ran 1:52 nearly 3 years ago. I will re-assess my goals as I go along, but getting under 1:58 at a minimum would mean a lot to me at this point.

Thanks to anyone who has cared to follow along.

Good to see you back TAR! I enjoyed following your progress last year, and I hope you can get back into running fast again.

I see that you’ve tried the stability shoes/orthotics route to treat your foot pain with little success. Have you tried going the other way and using zero drop neutral/lighter trainers? Maybe those foot and ankle muscles, tendons, and ligaments need to strengthen on their own instead of trying to minimize their use via stability products. I know this is completely anecdotal, but my foot problems went away when I stopped wearing orthotics and stability shoes and transitioned to neutral trainers.

Good luck and keep us updated! I’m shooting for a sub 1:58 myself this spring (PR 1:59). This will be my last track buildup, as the opportunities where I live to race and train for track are too few and far between.

Week ending in 2/2/19

Sunday: Long run on the treadmill. 12.3 miles @ 7:20 pace. Not very far or fast. Raced the day prior (mile in 4:26), and was out of town most of the day.

Monday: 7 miles easy @ 7:12 pace on the YMCA treadmill followed by 6x15s @ 4:17 pace (max treadmill speed) at 6% incline. + Core.

Tuesday: 5 miles @ 7:30.

Wednesday: Treadmill. 20min warmup, 5xmile with 1min rest, 20min cool down.

5:50, 5:46, 5:42, 5:39, 5:36. Lifted after.

Thursday: AM 5 miles @ 7:30

PM 3 miles @ 7:30

Friday: 5.5 miles @ 7:24 + Lifting

Saturday: 1.5mile warmup, 8x100m hill sprints, mile cool down. First run on solid ground outside in a bit. Felt sluggish but glad to be outside.

Weekly mileage total: 51.5 miles

All in all I'm content with the week. Nothing special. I raced Saturday so the quality was a little low, and it was either icy outside and/or -30 degrees with the windchill, so I was relegated to the treadmill (which I don't mind) for most of the week. I felt good and smooth on the cruise miles. The weather is supposed to make a complete turnaround so hopefully I can get to the track for some 800m pace stuff and probably some CV stuff later in the week.

Foot is manageable. My foot actually wasn't sore in the days following my race, which is unusual. It was sore after the hill sprints Saturday though.

@Joalturn - I've thought about going a more minimalist way, but if I do make any drastic changes it won't be until after this spring season is over. Then I can experiment more. In the past I've worn the supernova 6-8 and boston boosts without any issue, both of which are neutral with the supernova being a 'max' cushioning shoe. I currently alternate between the Saucony Guide ISO, Adidas Tempo 9s and Nike Vomero 13s. Honestly I think I feel best running in the Vomeros despite them not being a stability shoe. I have been doing foot and calf exercises despite wearing stability shoes to try to work on strength but it doesn't seem to make a drastic difference one way or the other.

And good luck with going for 1:58!

I know you say it's related to your posterior tibial tendon / pronation but try checking if your anterior tibialis muscle (front of shin is tight. it's the muscle on the front of your lower leg just to the outside of your shin bone. Basically rests against it. If that is tight it can impair nerve function down into your foot. I have had both arch and top of foot/toe pain due to this. Massaging the crap out of it made my pain go away. One way is to lie on your belly with a lacrosse ball under your leg. Push your leg down into the lacrosse ball. If that's too difficult you can just use your thumbs. Try holding the muscle still and pumping the ankle up and down.

Week Ending In 2/9/19

Sunday: Long Run. 12.2 miles @ 7:25 pace. Beautiful weather but that led to some muddy roads mid run.

Monday: 8.7 miles @ 6:28 pace. Planned on just an easy run but the pace got rolling and I felt good so I just went with it. 7:40, 7:30, 7:08, 6:42, 5:51, 5:45, 5:47, 5:56, 5:57. Last two miles were slightly uphill.

Tuesday: 10x200m on the track with 2.5min rest. ran between 28.5 and 29.5 for all of them. Felt comfortable enough but didn't feel like I could go a whole lot faster. Probably partially due to cold and partially due to running hard the day before. Hip and hamstring were bothering me a little bit beforehand.

Wednesday: 6.9 miles @ 7:49 pace. Just explored some short routes outside.

Thursday: 4.6 miles @ 7:35 pace.

Friday: 5x3min at 5:30 pace with 1min rest + 6x70m strides.

Saturday: 6.5 miles @ 7:18 pace plus strides.

Mileage total 50 miles

Overall I'm happy with this week. The latter half of the weak was pretty unremarkable because I didn't want to dig myself into a whole with the back to back hard days early in the week. Tuesday was basically the only day I could make it to the track due to work and weather. Additionally, I'm running a small all-comers meet that I'll just be using for a glorified workout on Sunday, so I wanted to be partially ready for that. My hip and hamstring have been bothering me a bit up to the meet, but as I'm typing this they're feeling better thankfully. I will continue to take care of it, but overall I feel like I'm heading in the right direction.

Week ending in 2/16/19

Sunday: Small All-Comer's Meet. This meet is pretty local so I usually run it, but it's on a cramped 200m flat track that is a gymnasium floor/rubber that you're not allowed to wear spikes on and is basically a tunnel for 150m. I ran the 800m in 2:04 and the 400m in 54.3. Won both by a significant margin.

Monday: Off

Tuesday: 7 miles easy @ 7:21 pace

Wednesday: 5x1k @ CV. Started at 3:24 and finished at 3:22. 1min rest. then 4x400m in 70 with 1min rest. + Lifting

Thursday: 7 miles @ 7:17 pace

Friday: 5.2 miles @ 6:49 pace

Saturday: 12x200m hill reps. First 4 I just jogged back for my rest (took 1min), then the next 8 I jogged half way down and walked the other half (took 2min). The hill is about 6-7% grade.

44, 45, 45, 44, 36, 38, 37, 38, 32, 33, 34, 32.

Weekly mileage: 37 miles

I'll start by clarifying that the main reason I go to those all-comer meets is because it's a good opprotunity for me to take some of the athletes I coach as well as get in a good workout. The track is abysmal. Far and away the slowest track i've ever run on, especially the faster the race/shorter the distance. For reference, two weeks before I ran my 4:26 this January, I ran 2:06 and 55.1 at this meet. So I dropped two seconds off of my 800m and almost a second off of my 400m between the two meets. I also could have certainly tried harder in the 800m. But I'll just stop making excuses there and just say that I think I'm in pretty good shape overall, I just need to weather to cooperate enough in the next month to hopefully throw a few faster workouts in.

I basically decided to make this a down week since I've been pretty good with my mileage the previous weeks and I knew I'd be taking a day off this week. The mid week CV workout was nothing special, and neither was the hill reps. Just some easy work. I won't be racing again until March 23rd, so I have time to get in a solid block of training these next 5 or so weeks.

sounds interesting

Glad you updated! Hope you can get healthy and back to your old self!

Week Ending in 2/23/19

Sunday: Easy snowy 9 miles @ 7:26 pace

Monday: Treadmill workout. 35min tempo @ 5:58 pace (started at 6:10 and cut down to 5:52 pace), then 2x400m in 64 with 1min rest. + Lifting

Tuesday: 7.6 miles @ 6:56 pace

Wednesday: Off. Didn't sleep well.

Thursday: 8.3 miles @ 7:16 pace

Friday: 9x600m in ~1:51 off of 1min rest. + 400m in 57 after a few minutes rest. + Lifting

Saturday: 4.6 miles @ 7:40 pace

Weekly total: 43.5 miles

Pretty good week overall. The day off was unplanned but I needed some extra sleep so it was justified enough. The tempo was pretty smooth which is a good thing for my endurance since my mileage has been pretty low overall. I would have liked to do sprints after but all I had was a treadmill with a max speed of 4:17 pace. The 600m reps were pretty tough with that short of rest, and I've always hated 3k-5k paces, but I'm glad I got the work in. My foot was slightly sore so I ran the workout in my Vomeros, so that didn't do me any favors. I changed into my Adidas Tempos for the 400m and just ran comfortably hard. I was glad I ran 57 because it honestly felt pretty easy and smooth. I couldn't hold that for 800m but I could have certainly cranked a lot faster if I needed it.

Week Ending in 3/2/2019

Sunday: Off

Monday: 8.2 miles easy @ 7:28 pace + Lifting

Tuesday: 6x1k with 1min rest in 3:27, 3:25, 3:23, 3:21, 3:18, 3:16 + 6x15s bike sprints with 45s rest. Ab workout after.

Wednesday: Long Run 11.6 miles @ 7:35 pace. Cold. Didn't feel good.

Thursday: Fartlek. 5x90s, 5x60s, 5x30s hard with 90s rest for everything. Paces started at mid 5min pace and cut down to low 4min pace.

Friday: 2.6 mile shakeout @ 7:41 pace

Saturday: 5.7 miles @ 7:22 pace + 6x80m hill sprints

Weekly Mileage Total 42.3 miles

Not a bad week but nothing special. Felt good on the CV pace 1ks and the fartlek was a fun way to get some work in. Ended up getting a better workout out of it than I anticipated. Just did a shakeout on Friday since I had three bigger days in a row.