Hello all. As the title says, this is a thread I will be using to track and share my training with everyone and possibly get advice and discuss different aspects of 800m training. This intro post is going to be long, but I want to give as much information about my progression and training as I can so I can be transparent and so discussion of training and such can be accurate.
Some of you may recognize me from the “Can I rub sub 4:24†thread. I moved from that thread to a new one because I no longer care about “4:24†and wish to run as fast as I can for the 800m.
I’ll give some background. I have detailed training of the past couple years and how my goals and PRs progressed on a week to week level that you can find in this thread:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6511501&page=1
I will no longer be posting on that thread and everything will be in here.
Here’s a little progression from when I started running up to now.
9th grade, 5’1 100lbs
800m: 2:37
5k: 19:59
Training: Minimal. Maybe 15-20mpw with less over the winter
10th grade, 5’6 120lbs
800m: 2:27
5k: 19:15
Training: Minimal. Maybe 20-25mpw with less over the winter with some weight lifting here and there
11th grade, 5’8 125-130lbs
400m: 57.X
800m: 2:21 (only ran once)
3200m: 11:11
5k: 18:28
Training: Better but still minimal. Likely 25-30 mpw with more off season running. Lifting in the winter into spring.
12th grade, 5’10 130-135lbs
400m: 55 high (only ran once)
800m: Didn’t run one
1600m: 4:57
3200m: 10:46
5k: 17:28
Training: Much better but still low in the grand scheme of things. 30mpw with a lot of speed work and races in the fall. Much more consistent in the summer and fall, though. Lifted all winter and into spring, but didn’t run for a couple months in January-February because of knee problems. Cross trained a little (mostly rowing machines).
Decided to run in college last minute for fun.
Freshman Year, 5’11 140-145lbs
8k XC: 28:37
200m: 24.7
400m split: 54.9
800m: 2:05 high
1500m: 4:25
Training: Over the summer I probably averaged 30-35mpw but with a lot of tempos and I only ran 4-6 days a week. XC went well but I didn’t finish the season well. Decided to be in the mid distance group for track. Only ran 20-25mpw. Was at a plateau most of the year at around 2:08 for 800m. Felt like I improved top speed and strength well as I lifted most of the year.
Sophomore Year, 5’11 140-150lbs
8k XC: 28:07
400m split: 53.6 (only ran once)
800m: 2:05 low
1500m: 4:19
i3000m: 9:33
5000m: 16:37
3k Steeple: 10:31
Training: Over the summer I don’t think my mileage ever really exceeded 40mpw and was more likely around 30-35 most of the time. I did a lot of speed work like hard 400’s and lots of 200’s faster than Vo2 pace with short rest because my coach wasn’t great back then. Switched to distance for track because I wanted to run steeplechase. Over the winter, I upped my mileage and was pretty consistently in the 50’s for most of indoor and part of outdoor. I continued to lift (mostly) year-round.
Junior Year, 5’11 145-150lbs
8k XC: A muddy 28:03
200m: 24.4 (indoor 200m flat track)
500m: 1:11 high
800m: 2:03
Mile: 4:32 (indoor)
3000m: 9:25 (indoor)
3k Steeple: 10:14
Training: Pretty much did the opposite this summer. Ran up to 60mpw with consistent 45-55mpw of mostly easy mileage and some tempos and long runs. I probably could have used some more up tempo running and strides. I felt like I really under-performed in many of my 8k races. I was killing workouts but barely improving in races. During the winter, I got back to 60mpw for most of the winter and was in the 40’s most of spring. I started doubling 2-3 times a week in the winter because I took my coaches jogging class for easy kines credits in the mornings. The mile was a standout performance for me, and the 800 was pretty good too because it was 45 minutes after the mile and I negative split it. I was still hellbent on being a steepler, though.
Senior Year, 5’11 148-158lbs
8k XC: 27:04
400m split: 49.9
500m: 1:06.4
800m: 1:52 high
1500m: 4:08
Training: The training leading into and during this year is where the thread I linked above starts. I was really dedicated on reaching my goal of running 4:24 for the mile so I could qualify for indoor ECACs. I upped my summer mileage to consistent 70-75mpw with a lot of easy and longer tempos, some hill sprints and very consistent lifting. XC season went pretty well. I was much more consistent. XC is not my thing but I was pleased with my performances. I took 5 days off then got back into training. I quickly got up to 60mpw in the winter and did a lot of tempos and mile pace work in November and December. I also added in a lot of quick 100m ‘strides’ after easy runs, which I think helped my 400/800 tremendously. I ended up running the 4x4 regularly because I was one of our top 4 guys. Ended up splitting between 50.9 and 51.5 throughout the indoor season. I never reached my goal in the mile, as I only ran 4:31 for some reason. I just didn’t get in the right race I guess. I ran the 500m as a last-ditch effort to qualify at the end of indoor and ran 1:06.7 (qualifying was 1:08 flat). I got our school record and found I took well to the 500. I ran an 800m indoor on a 200m flat track and ran 1:56.5 and decided I had better drop steeplechase and switch to the mid distance group for outdoor track. You can check out the thread above for more details about that indoor season and the outdoor season. We did some hard progression runs, cut down workouts, and a lot of 400m-800m pace work during outdoor and I eventually ran 1:55.5, 1:54.3 and 1:52.7 at the last meet of the year.
1st year Post Collegiate
I didn’t really take much of a break after track season senior year because I was so amped up about how track season ended. I think this was mistake #1. I got back into training and made it up to consistent 60mpw with some sprint work and tempos. During the first part of summer I PR’d in the 5k and 15k with 16:10 and 52:40 but I also developed Achilles tendinopathy that I have to this day. I have always been able to run through it but I have not been able to shake the injury. Let’s just fast forward a bit. I had decent winter training but I had an injury scare that required me to take 4 days off of running in February, and I think this hurt me mentally more than anything. I never got my mileage back up and I wasn’t getting in quality workouts. I ended up getting strep throat in March and this pretty much did me in. I ran 4 outdoor track meets and ran 51.8 in the open 400m, and 2:02, 1:58.3 and 1:58.4 and I have now packed it in and am taking a week break from running.
So, as you can see, this past year hasn’t been great for my running. Maybe I’ll never break 1:50, or maybe I’ll never even PR again in the 800, but I’ll be damned if I don’t try while I’m young. I’m starting a new job soon so hopefully I can use the new structure and routine to help myself. I’m not starting serious training until June. I will be working on building mileage and consistently doubling during the month of May. I want to get into a routine where I’m doubling 6 days a week because I’ve never been very consistent with doubling. I’ll be updating this thread (hopefully) weekly with my training for that week. I welcome questions, (constructive) criticisms, advice, feedback, etc. I will try to be detailed with my training and continue to be as transparent as I can. This is no bs, just a thread about a running goal I want to achieve and discussions about said running. I will post an update after my first week of running is complete.
If you read this far, thank you and I hope you continue to follow along.
My quest for sub 1:50 in the 800m
Report Thread
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I am also chasing sub150, this is my first season of training in about 3 years and managed to get just under 2 with basically only workouts (IT band wont allow me to run distance runs). After this season I plan on taking about 2 weeks off completely to heal and then a week of easy running to get back into it. My 400 pr is just under 50 but I have never put it more than about 20 miles a week. This summer I will be working between 40-50 mpw. Goodluck to you!
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I'm about to finish my freshman year of college running and my progression has been almost identical to yours down to the exact times (plateau'd at 2:07-8, ran 2:05.high once, 54.high relay split) after running about the same times as you my senior year of high school (55.x, 2:06, 4:55). I'm planning my summer/fall training right now. Every coach that I've had has told me that I ought to be running sub 1:55 the way I look, but my training has always been 25-35mpw of just easy running and hard 200/300/400s two or three days a week.
Can you explain to me what your training looked like before your senior year and how it contrasted with the summers before your junior year? It seems like the mileage was similar, but clearly you did something different. I don't want to have wait until my senior year to figure it out and feel regret for what could have been.
Thanks. -
You should click the link to that thread I linked above. It has very detailed training from that summer all the way through to my track season.
The biggest differences I made from Junior to Senior year was an increase and mileage and tempo type running. Summer before my junior year I ran 50-60mpw but mostly easy and I only ran one short 3-4 mile tempo once a week.
Summer before senior year I started doing a lot more doubles so I could hit 70mpw somewhat consistently. I also ran more tempos, but I also made sure they weren't too hard and were longer. I'd often go for 5-7 mile tempos at low 6 minute pace instead of 3 mile tempos at 5:45 pace. So basically I worked on my endurance a lot. Really easy pace for my easy runs (around 7:30) and 2-3 tempo type runs a week of around 5:55-6:15 pace. (sometimes they'd be fartleks or progression runs, but basically the goal was to improve my top end endurance).
I was also very good about lifting over the summer. I'd go twice a week and I'd bench, squat, do pull ups and a lot of various core / hip work one day, then I'd incline bench, deadlift, pullups and a lot of other various core work. I think this helped me maintain the mileage without getting hurt and I think lifting helps tremendously with speed and 800m training. I also would do hill sprints, something like 6-8x8 second all out hill sprints of a decently steep hill.
Do you run XC? I think you should focus on increasing your mileage a little but and work on your endurance. Lift, do strides and some hill sprints to keep in touch and possibly even improve your speed.
Read the thread I linked early in the original post to see what I did week by week.
Atavist wrote:
I'm about to finish my freshman year of college running and my progression has been almost identical to yours down to the exact times (plateau'd at 2:07-8, ran 2:05.high once, 54.high relay split) after running about the same times as you my senior year of high school (55.x, 2:06, 4:55). I'm planning my summer/fall training right now. Every coach that I've had has told me that I ought to be running sub 1:55 the way I look, but my training has always been 25-35mpw of just easy running and hard 200/300/400s two or three days a week.
Can you explain to me what your training looked like before your senior year and how it contrasted with the summers before your junior year? It seems like the mileage was similar, but clearly you did something different. I don't want to have wait until my senior year to figure it out and feel regret for what could have been.
Thanks. -
sub150.0 wrote:
I am also chasing sub150, this is my first season of training in about 3 years and managed to get just under 2 with basically only workouts (IT band wont allow me to run distance runs). After this season I plan on taking about 2 weeks off completely to heal and then a week of easy running to get back into it. My 400 pr is just under 50 but I have never put it more than about 20 miles a week. This summer I will be working between 40-50 mpw. Goodluck to you!
You should really work on strengthening your hips and whatever else is causing the ITBS. Your speed is plenty good enough for sub 1:50, you just gotta up the mileage and work on endurance and I think you can do it. Good luck to you too! -
Ya, I have cut out the easy runs and been doing hip and leg strengthening exercise instead. Pretty much 3 workouts a week and an easy 20 minutes if I can. 3 weeks left in the season then I am making sure im healed before starting base!
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I looked through the thread and I see what you're talking about. What was the jump from 40 to 60-70 like? It seems in the other thread you had no problem getting up all the way to 80 a couple weeks, but you had already done a couple of 60 mile weeks during your junior year. Were you simply not strong enough your junior year to get up to 65+ mpw and do 5+ mile tempos, or were you just unaware that that was what you were supposed to be doing?
Over the winter I ran pretty consistent 40 mile weeks including three track workouts and three lifting sessions. I won't be doing much heavy lifting over the first half of the summer as I won't have access to a gym and obviously won't be doing any hard anaerobic workouts either. Really what I'm wondering is whether I can gun for it this summer, or whether I need spend my sophomore year just getting accustomed to running a decent level of mileage so I can try to make the leap coming into my junior year. -
Well running around 60mpw was a lot for me my junior year. I was doing a bit more (and with more consistency) than I was my sophomore year. I might not have been strong enough but I didn't try, because I was already in new territory training wise. I could have been doing more tempos my junior year though, that's for sure.
And it's fine if you can't lift heavy all summer. Work on a lot of core and hip work since you can't lift. Maybe look for some drills and plyos to do. Doing the little things consistently can make a big difference over time.
And I'm not sure what you mean by "really gun for it" this summer. I wouldn't recommend jumping to 70 mpw if you're only used to 40, but you could likely work your way up to 55-60 if you're smart with training. I would have never been able to hit 60 for the first time without doubling 2-3 times a week, just 4 miles easy in the mornings. And I certainly would not have been able to hit 70+ with doubles. Ideally I tried to double as many days as possible, even if it was only 2-3 miles a lot of mornings.
Atavist wrote:
I looked through the thread and I see what you're talking about. What was the jump from 40 to 60-70 like? It seems in the other thread you had no problem getting up all the way to 80 a couple weeks, but you had already done a couple of 60 mile weeks during your junior year. Were you simply not strong enough your junior year to get up to 65+ mpw and do 5+ mile tempos, or were you just unaware that that was what you were supposed to be doing?
Over the winter I ran pretty consistent 40 mile weeks including three track workouts and three lifting sessions. I won't be doing much heavy lifting over the first half of the summer as I won't have access to a gym and obviously won't be doing any hard anaerobic workouts either. Really what I'm wondering is whether I can gun for it this summer, or whether I need spend my sophomore year just getting accustomed to running a decent level of mileage so I can try to make the leap coming into my junior year. -
This was a classic thread. Hope it helps!
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2669719
Cheers,
Toastie -
I'll try to hit 55-60 with plenty of tempos, hill sprints, and strides. If you keep this thread alive I'll check in with monthly updates.
Good luck on your quest. I'm excited to see what comes of it. -
Your prior thread was excellent, and I look forward to following your 800 progress.
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predictor: thank you.
Avantist: I look forward to hearing your progress. Good luck to you
Toastie: I've read through some of that thread. It has a lot of good information, but I think the thing I took most from what I read of that thread was how different everyone trained at that level. There was the low mileage speedy guys, the guys who were running 80+ miles a week and everyone in between. My goal is to try to emulate things that I know helped me in the past while trying to fix some of my recent mistakes.
I'm not finished with my first week yet but running has been going well. I mean I'm only trying to run 25-30 miles for my first week back so it's been going as well as it can go for a first week back haha. -
Week ending in: 05/06
I'll be posting recent races or time trials in the top section of my posts, but since this is my first week of this training block I won't have a race to post anytime too soon, just boring training haha.
Sunday AM 2 miles @ 7:30 pace
PM 5.3 miles @ 7:43 pace
Monday AM 2 miles @ 7:30 pace
PM 3 miles easy @ 7:20 pace + 2x200m with my buddy in 35 and 32. Did hurdle drills as well
Tuesday AM 2 miles @ 7:40 pace
Wednesday AM 2 miles @ 7:35 pace
PM 3 miles @ 6:23 pace. (7:30, 6:10, 5:57)
Thursday PM 3 miles @ 7:31 pace
Friday PM 6.2 miles @ 7:25 pace + core
Saturday AM 2 miles @ 7:38 pace
PM 2.7 miles @ 7:33 pace + core
Week Total: 33 miles
Not a bad first week. The goal was to only run around 30 miles give or take a few. I didn't plan on those 200's but my buddy wanted a partner so I joined him for some glorified strides. I also didn't plan on the tempo but I just felt really good and it happened. Also, when I list core I usually focus on hips and do some lower back, ab and glute work too. I'm working on consistency with my doubles. I'll work those up to 20 minute runs as a minimum soon. My goal for this next week is to be somewhere in the 40's for mileage. Probably mostly all short runs with one or two longer ones on nice days (it's been raining relentlessly all week here). I've been doing my heel drops for my achilles almost every day. 3 sets of 15 twice a day. Slowly been increasing weight. I feel like it helps but the achilles is still tender. We'll see how that progresses. I'll likely start lifting again sometime in late may and just focus on core type stuff for now. Also, no structured workouts until June. Just mileage building. -
Try to improve the quality of your mileage, keep it at 5.50 to 6.25 mile pace and you will see a big change in your PR
Cheers -
kipko wrote:
Try to improve the quality of your mileage, keep it at 5.50 to 6.25 mile pace and you will see a big change in your PR
Cheers
Once I get to 60+ mpw in June my plan is to add on 2-3 different tempo type runs a week. Trying to run all my mileage at marathon pace will destroy me. I tend to do better with high mileage at a modest easy pace with a lot of tempoish type work mixed in. -
Week ending in: 5/13
I apologize in advance for this garbage week.
Sunday AM 2.7 miles @ 7:46 pace
PM 4.5 miles @ 6:20. Split (7:10, 6:40, 6:08, 6:00, 6:02)
Monday AM 2 miles @ 7:30 pace
PM 1.9 miles @ 7:20 pace
Tuesday Off
Wednesday PM 3 miles @ 7:25 pace
Thursday AM 2 miles @ 7:45 pace
PM 5 miles @ 6:56 pace
Friday Off
Saturday AM 8.1 miles @ 6:45 pace
PM 2.7 miles @ 7:30 pace
Week total: 32 miles in 5 days
I'm a bum and took two days off this week, which I am unhappy about, but it is only my second week back. I had some prior obligations and running took the back burner, but I am already doing better with it this week which is good. I've done core a couple days this past week, and have been focusing on my hips as well. I have also been running on trails more and hopefully that will strengthen my lower legs and feet pretty well as well as save me from some of the impact of running. -
Week ending in 5/20:
Sunday AM 4 miles easy @ (7:50)
PM 4.2 miles easy on trails @ (7:37) + Core/Hips
Monday AM 2.5 miles easy @ (7:36)
PM 4.3 miles easy on trails @ (7:12)
Tuesday PM 4.8 miles easy on trails @ (7:40)
Wednesday AM 2 miles easy @ (7:30)
PM 5 miles of warmup + cooldown. Hill sprints and drills. (Will detail below)
Thursday PM 6.2 miles easy on trails (7:38)
Friday AM 3.2 miles easy @ (7:28)
PM 4.8 miles on trails (7:05). Pushed the steep hills
Saturday AM 3 miles easy (7:31)
PM 4.3 miles easy @ (6:58)
Week total: 48 miles
Feeling pretty good. Doubles have been coming along better and I am starting to enjoy running in the mornings more (still not a fan, though). I will be increasing the mileage this next week to somewhere in the 50's before taking my first down week the week after, then I will build into the 70's for the next cycle. I am also going to start adding in strides more often as my achilles has been improving.
The hill workout was up a pretty steep hill (between 10-15% grade) and was only 40m in length. I did a sprint, high skips, high knees, sprint, bounding, A skips, sprint, left leg hop, right leg hop, and sprint. So, 4 sprints and 6 different drills, all up the hill. Single leg hops and high knees were probably the most difficult, and my left leg (leg with the achilles problems) is certainly weaker than my right. My achilles wasn't particularly sore after this which is promising. Need to work on doing core/hip stuff more often, though. -
Is there a reason you are doubling at such low mileage? I totally get the need to double when you reach 60-65+, but I think anything 55mpw and below, you are losing out on the potential benefits of just longer easy runs. I would argue that a sustained effort of 7 miles is better for aerobic conditions than a 3/4 double. You just aren't sustaining your heart rate and breathing pattern for a sufficient length of time compared to the longer single run. I always though the philosophy was that you should go on all singles until you feel like you can recover and/or start doing workouts in addition to your easy runs. If I were you, I would try to do at least up to 50mpw consistently on singles or with as few doubles as possible. Also, no long run....or did I miss something? I saw your mention of your achilles issues so if that is the reason for your short doubles then I maybe could understand it more since you would just be doing what is best. However, I would still really try to do longer single runs...whether you have to find softer ground or whatever.
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NowUhavemyAttention wrote:
Is there a reason you are doubling at such low mileage? I totally get the need to double when you reach 60-65+, but I think anything 55mpw and below, you are losing out on the potential benefits of just longer easy runs. I would argue that a sustained effort of 7 miles is better for aerobic conditions than a 3/4 double. You just aren't sustaining your heart rate and breathing pattern for a sufficient length of time compared to the longer single run. I always though the philosophy was that you should go on all singles until you feel like you can recover and/or start doing workouts in addition to your easy runs. If I were you, I would try to do at least up to 50mpw consistently on singles or with as few doubles as possible. Also, no long run....or did I miss something? I saw your mention of your achilles issues so if that is the reason for your short doubles then I maybe could understand it more since you would just be doing what is best. However, I would still really try to do longer single runs...whether you have to find softer ground or whatever.
Most of the time, the benefit of easy runs is for economy and recovery. Real benefit comes from tempos and long runs. For getting the most recovery miles in, it is best to do doubles. I do agree with you that it is unconventional to do doubles at such low mileage.
In the OP's case, I think he wants to increase mileage fairly quickly above 60mpw, so he wants to get used to running doubles because he will need them later. -
alabama runner wrote:
NowUhavemyAttention wrote:
Is there a reason you are doubling at such low mileage? I totally get the need to double when you reach 60-65+, but I think anything 55mpw and below, you are losing out on the potential benefits of just longer easy runs. I would argue that a sustained effort of 7 miles is better for aerobic conditions than a 3/4 double. You just aren't sustaining your heart rate and breathing pattern for a sufficient length of time compared to the longer single run. I always though the philosophy was that you should go on all singles until you feel like you can recover and/or start doing workouts in addition to your easy runs. If I were you, I would try to do at least up to 50mpw consistently on singles or with as few doubles as possible. Also, no long run....or did I miss something? I saw your mention of your achilles issues so if that is the reason for your short doubles then I maybe could understand it more since you would just be doing what is best. However, I would still really try to do longer single runs...whether you have to find softer ground or whatever.
Most of the time, the benefit of easy runs is for economy and recovery. Real benefit comes from tempos and long runs. For getting the most recovery miles in, it is best to do doubles. I do agree with you that it is unconventional to do doubles at such low mileage.
In the OP's case, I think he wants to increase mileage fairly quickly above 60mpw, so he wants to get used to running doubles because he will need them later.
Alabama runner hit the nail on the head. This is only my third week back and I will be getting (hopefully) into the 70's in June. I am doubling now so I can stay consistent with it, and so increasing mileage is much easier. I am just doing some runs right now without much structure, and that will start in June. I just want to get consistent with doubling now and so far it's been working. I'm about to start up lifting again too. This is only the first few weeks of a 20-24ish week cycle.
