Aussie battlers and bogans wrote:
The US system just spat out Olympic medals in the men's 800m, 1500m (gold), steeple, 5000m, and marathon.
The Aussie club/institute system produced one men's Olympic 1500m finalist, first one since 1960.
And none of those medalists were running yesterday. If Rupp and Chelimo were on the team instead of Fauble and Dunbar, they would have easily taken bronze. I can't see Rupp not taking top 5 on a course like that.
That course was definitely NOT Rupp certified. I had grass and mud. And turns. Oh, the turns.
Jo jo's munkey wrote:
That course was definitely NOT Rupp certified. I had grass and mud. And turns. Oh, the turns.
Why would a guy who runs 10Ks on a track be afraid of turns?
Running fast.
Ritz ran 1:00:12 behind Farah just a few months back. We have a good enough development system and plenty of talent to not take third-rate Kenyans who didn't move here until adulthood to fill our teams, though Chelimo has certainly proved on the track that he could make the leap to the first tier of Kenyans. But it's obvious that those new Americans are doing about as much as well or better as Tiernan, so talking about them wouldn't exactly answer the question.
As for the heat/cold:
in Poland in 2013 in snow and ice, True took sixth, Birmingham eighth, Derrick tenth, Ryan Vail 16th, and Mack 19th, plus the Aussies Adams and Robinson were also top 30 and the American Elliott Heath took 30th (American James Strang was 37th); and the U.S. team with no Kenyan imports took silver by two points over Kenya!
Kenya and Ethiopian highlands are obviously not superhot a lot of the year but the fact is that Kenyans don't dominate as much in cold conditions. In 2001, in cool rainy, they did win but Ethiopia was ninth, while France was 2nd and the U.S. 3rd, while in the junior race Teg was fifth and Ritz third.
Gotta be in it, to win it. And all those guys weren't.
If anyone has seen Pat Tiernan's sweat account, his workouts, runs and complete training is not wildly impressive. He takes a conservative approach to training in comparison to what a lot of pro's do. Now, Tiernan has to develop more on the track to be able to run in the diamond league and close at an elite level which he'll probably have to work on and learn with racing, but he certainly is strong enough and can run in those races which shows what he's doing is pointing him in the right direction.
Chris Derrick placed 8th at World XC at the exact same age in 2013 4 years ago (they're pretty much exactly 4 years apart in age). But I would say that Tiernan is a huge talent and this doesn't surprise me. He did also train with multiple sub 4 minute milers for his first couple years at Nova. Although it is worth mentioning that Mcgorty blew his doors off at Payton Jordan last year (13:23 to 13:25) and also beat him at NCAAs on the track last spring.
Trainin wrote:
If anyone has seen Pat Tiernan's sweat account, his workouts, runs and complete training is not wildly impressive. He takes a conservative approach to training in comparison to what a lot of pro's do. Now, Tiernan has to develop more on the track to be able to run in the diamond league and close at an elite level which he'll probably have to work on and learn with racing, but he certainly is strong enough and can run in those races which shows what he's doing is pointing him in the right direction.
Came here to say this.
If anyone wants an overview of his training for the year leading to the Olympics, I put it together on an excel sheet and would be happy to send it to you.
Pro fat wrote:
defeatist wrote:Well, for starters, he's competing at the World XC championships. Something most (white) Americans are not doing.
Yes you are correct along with every other major running event around the world. Americans just don't show up. Seem to obsessed with training, contracts and maintaining their blogs.
Is there any chance we could get the Scot Callum Hawkins and Scottish-Irish Laura Muir to become citizens of the USA so that we can Make America Great Again…at running???
Jake and Zane Robertson should also become US citizens and run for the USA... so that we can Make America Great Again…at running.
…and Feyisa Lilesa should also become a US citizen and run for the USA…and live and train in Flagstaff.
...and Kenenisa Bekele should also become a US citizen and run for the USA …and live and train in Flagstaff.
Now the USA team is finally looking really good.
OK.
I am happy that this running situation in the US is finally going to get fixed.
Agreed.Letsrun posters, in general, are like the common USA voter. Uniformed and full of opinions and assumptions that are totally incorrect. Unwilling to spend 90 seconds on Google to look things up before posting. They want what they believe to be truth, but that's silly.here's my 90 seconds of research on Iten, Kenya:https://www.yr.no/place/Kenya/Rift_Valley/Iten/statistics.html27 Celsius is 80 F. That's the high for the year. Portland, OR has warmer, more humid summersI'm guessing where the Ethiopians train is cooler because they are even higher up
Man UP wrote:
vzcx,.mfweo wrote:Jenkins is surely much better than Tiernan right now, but Tiernan had the mentality and ability not only to beat Cheserek in NCAA xc, something Jenkins could not do, but to go compete in Uganda against the World's best, and to finish 13th in a warm weather race at some altitude. Of course, both Derrick and True were top ten at World's in Poland, but it was cold, so uncomfortable for many of the African runners (when Ritz and Teg took 3rd and 5th behind Bekele at World Juniors in 2001, it was cold as well).
Best possible U.S.-born team:
1. Ritz
2. Jenkins
3. Rupp
4. True
5. Derrick
6. Heath? (good xc runner; how is Mead at xc? Jager as a steepler would figure to be good at that course too)
Who am I missing?
This team would have taken third.
Stop it with the cold weather excuse. Heat is much more of a problem for runners from everywhere on the planet, period.
Tiernan might not be as talented as some of the top Americans, but he has guts. Americans, white guys anyway, tend to lack heart when going up against Africans. There are exceptions like Murphy, Jager, Rupp, etc. but overall, the yanks are just afraid. They are also gullible, always taking the age claims by the African junior athletes at face value. Look at True, Jenkins, and some others at the Trials. They should have made the Olympic team or at least been more competitive at the trials. But they let three "African" guys do what they wanted to in that race. Sure, one was a known drug cheat (Lagat) but it was obvious Jenkins and crew were scared to death to battle the Africans mano a mano.
Trainin wrote:
If anyone wants an overview of his training for the year leading to the Olympics, I put it together on an excel sheet and would be happy to send it to you.
I'd be very interested to see this. Email:
runtrms@gmail.comMacdaddy wrote:
Neither Ritz nor Derrick would sniff Americas best "white" top 7 right now. They would MAYBE be top 15 with a complete squad of American citizens.
Which is funny, since Derrick is currently ranked #3 for 10000m and #2 for half marathon.
spot on!
tiernan ran the fastest last 2km in the field, i think he can close just fine
Trainin wrote:
If anyone has seen Pat Tiernan's sweat account, his workouts, runs and complete training is not wildly impressive. He takes a conservative approach to training in comparison to what a lot of pro's do. Now, Tiernan has to develop more on the track to be able to run in the diamond league and close at an elite level which he'll probably have to work on and learn with racing, but he certainly is strong enough and can run in those races which shows what he's doing is pointing him in the right direction.
I think people are also forgetting that the Africans are still more hungry to succeed than the Americans. Including these real African-Americans.
The Americans are not living in shitty huts, without warm water. Maybe Tiernan is.
Now is the time to deport Fisher, Hunter, etc. to Africa or Scotland, for six years, threatening no re-entry into the USA again unit they medal at World XC, and see how good they are then.
Young talent wrote:
I think people are also forgetting that the Africans are still more hungry to succeed than the Americans. Including these real African-Americans.
The Americans are not living in shitty huts, without warm water. Maybe Tiernan is.
Now is the time to deport Fisher, Hunter, etc. to Africa or Scotland, for six years, threatening no re-entry into the USA again unit they medal at World XC, and see how good they are then.
Good idea.
It worked for David Torrence in Peru and Alexi Pappass in Greece.
PT got a lot better since with Nick Bideau and MTC:
http://www.melbournetrackclub.com.au/staff
Fact #1: Bideau now coaching Hamza Driouch, previous doping ban
Fact #2: Maurie Plant, MTC liaison, organised a substituted a urine sample for an Australian athlete in 1986
Fact #3: Peter Jess, MTC accountant, involved with AFL club doping scandal.
gotalotbetter wrote:
PT got a lot better since with Nick Bideau and MTC:
http://www.melbournetrackclub.com.au/staffFact #1: Bideau now coaching Hamza Driouch, previous doping ban
Fact #2: Maurie Plant, MTC liaison, organised a substituted a urine sample for an Australian athlete in 1986
Fact #3: Peter Jess, MTC accountant, involved with AFL club doping scandal.
Yeah true, that squad is full of scum, but Tiernan is too intelligent to let Bideau coach him.
Bideau & MTC are dodgy!