So what is Patrick Tiernan doing that Americans aren't?

Some super talented guys like Drew Hunter skip the collegiate system. I would bet Hunter would be a multiple NCAA champion had he gone. But the answer is yes, some people whether they are Kenyan, Australian, Norwegian, Ugandan, American are more innately talented than others. You're looking at the extreme talents in the distribution who become NCAA champions, it doesn't mean the people who aren't winning are doing something wrong.

I'd say Jenkins is better than Tiernan.

The best real Americans tend not to bother with World Cross.

roartigers wrote:

The best real Americans tend not to bother with World Cross.

Or much else.

Jenkins is surely much better than Tiernan right now, but Tiernan had the mentality and ability not only to beat Cheserek in NCAA xc, something Jenkins could not do, but to go compete in Uganda against the World's best, and to finish 13th in a warm weather race at some altitude. Of course, both Derrick and True were top ten at World's in Poland, but it was cold, so uncomfortable for many of the African runners (when Ritz and Teg took 3rd and 5th behind Bekele at World Juniors in 2001, it was cold as well).

Best possible U.S.-born team:

1. Ritz

2. Jenkins

3. Rupp

4. True

5. Derrick

6. Heath? (good xc runner; how is Mead at xc? Jager as a steepler would figure to be good at that course too)

Who am I missing?

This team would have taken third.

vzcx,.mfweo wrote:

Jenkins is surely much better than Tiernan right now, but Tiernan had the mentality and ability not only to beat Cheserek in NCAA xc, something Jenkins could not do, but to go compete in Uganda against the World's best, and to finish 13th in a warm weather race at some altitude. Of course, both Derrick and True were top ten at World's in Poland, but it was cold, so uncomfortable for many of the African runners (when Ritz and Teg took 3rd and 5th behind Bekele at World Juniors in 2001, it was cold as well).

Best possible U.S.-born team:

1. Ritz

2. Jenkins

3. Rupp

4. True

5. Derrick

6. Heath? (good xc runner; how is Mead at xc? Jager as a steepler would figure to be good at that course too)

Who am I missing?

This team would have taken third.

That's a really good team right there. And I think many (all?) of those athletes could be on par with Tiernan.

I think the big thing now is that many skip the race, which is unfortunate. But if we sent our best team every year, we should have a top 15 runner most years.

I think the mindset he shows in this quote is a big part of his success::

" I think a lot of people can tend to get caught up in the world of running, and what I mean by that is focusing too heavily on running fast and winning instead of enjoying it. For me, Villanova helped reinforce why I love the sport. Being a part of a team, and being able to share all of your ups and downs with them is something that I will always be grateful for. The other great aspect about being surrounded by your best mates while training is that it can take your mind of things like the big race, which for me is very helpful as I can tend to overthink things. These are just a couple of reasons why I feel I have been able to compete the way I have during my four years here."

vzcx,.mfweo wrote:

Jenkins is surely much better than Tiernan right now, but Tiernan had the mentality and ability not only to beat Cheserek in NCAA xc, something Jenkins could not do, but to go compete in Uganda against the World's best, and to finish 13th in a warm weather race at some altitude. Of course, both Derrick and True were top ten at World's in Poland, but it was cold, so uncomfortable for many of the African runners (when Ritz and Teg took 3rd and 5th behind Bekele at World Juniors in 2001, it was cold as well).

Best possible U.S.-born team:

1. Ritz

2. Jenkins

3. Rupp

4. True

5. Derrick

6. Heath? (good xc runner; how is Mead at xc? Jager as a steepler would figure to be good at that course too)

Who am I missing?

This team would have taken third.

Disagree. I think our best team has the 4 Kenyans plus Paul Chelimo and is of the above guys. Hard not to put Rupp on there since he's our best at 10K and marathon and he's Rupp.

But basically, we sent our best team.

You're mis-read something buddy

Well, for starters, he's competing at the World XC championships. Something most (white) Americans are not doing.

After watching Patrick win Australian U18 Junior Nat'l XC here in Australia I can tell you one of the biggest benefits of the aussie system is that young talented runners work with their coaches for a long time. You have the club or group system that the US doesn't have for young juniors. Instead you have the schools in which if your coaches aren't up to scratch you are going to suffer. PT ran roughly 17:30 for 6k at the age of 17! The next year Morgan McDonald won the age group. The biggest name you haven't heard of is Jake Birtwhistle who ran 8:08 for 3k at 17 but is now a triathlete. If you think I am wrong look at some of the recent results 15 year old girl 2:01, 18 year old boy 3:41 for 1500m. Australia is a small country but the best system for developing long term development is not the current school model that out there.

defeatist wrote:

Well, for starters, he's competing at the World XC championships. Something most (white) Americans are not doing.

Yes you are correct along with every other major running event around the world. Americans just don't show up. Seem to obsessed with training, contracts and maintaining their blogs.

snow blow wrote:

He's the only non-African since Galen Rupp to win NCAA XC. Then a few months later gets 13th at World XC. And he's only 22. So why in the last 8-9 years have we not had an American straight out college with similar performances? Chris Derrick is the only one that comes to mind; he didn't win NCAA XC but did get top 10 at World XC at a young age. Is Tiernan just that much more talented than all the other young Americans?

Talented or put the work in. Other non-African athletes who didn't turn up could have done better.

The US system just spat out Olympic medals in the men's 800m, 1500m (gold), steeple, 5000m, and marathon.

The Aussie club/institute system produced one men's Olympic 1500m finalist, first one since 1960.

Hey moron. PT is a product of the US college system.

Last guy said it. Aussie system hasn't produced sheet.

RE: So what is Patrick Tiernan doing that Americans aren't?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFKfQN5Y7Ds

vzcx,.mfweo wrote:

Best possible U.S.-born team:

1. Ritz

2. Jenkins

3. Rupp

4. True

5. Derrick

6. Heath? (good xc runner; how is Mead at xc? Jager as a steepler would figure to be good at that course too)

Who am I missing?

This team would have taken third.

.

I'll ignore the fact that you are being discriminatory here because your list is THAT bad.

Neither Ritz nor Derrick would sniff Americas best "white" top 7 right now. They would MAYBE be top 15 with a complete squad of American citizens.

vzcx,.mfweo wrote:

Jenkins is surely much better than Tiernan right now, but Tiernan had the mentality and ability not only to beat Cheserek in NCAA xc, something Jenkins could not do, but to go compete in Uganda against the World's best, and to finish 13th in a warm weather race at some altitude. Of course, both Derrick and True were top ten at World's in Poland, but it was cold, so uncomfortable for many of the African runners (when Ritz and Teg took 3rd and 5th behind Bekele at World Juniors in 2001, it was cold as well).

Best possible U.S.-born team:

1. Ritz

2. Jenkins

3. Rupp

4. True

5. Derrick

6. Heath? (good xc runner; how is Mead at xc? Jager as a steepler would figure to be good at that course too)

Who am I missing?

This team would have taken third.

Stop it with the cold weather excuse. Heat is much more of a problem for runners from everywhere on the planet, period.

Tiernan might not be as talented as some of the top Americans, but he has guts. Americans, white guys anyway, tend to lack heart when going up against Africans. There are exceptions like Murphy, Jager, Rupp, etc. but overall, the yanks are just afraid. They are also gullible, always taking the age claims by the African junior athletes at face value. Look at True, Jenkins, and some others at the Trials. They should have made the Olympic team or at least been more competitive at the trials. But they let three "African" guys do what they wanted to in that race. Sure, one was a known drug cheat (Lagat) but it was obvious Jenkins and crew were scared to death to battle the Africans mano a mano.

vzcx,.mfweo wrote:

Of course, both Derrick and True were top ten at World's in Poland, but it was cold, so uncomfortable for many of the African runners (when Ritz and Teg took 3rd and 5th behind Bekele at World Juniors in 2001, it was cold as well).

It is ridiculous to say that cold weather is uncomfortable for African runners. ALL runners are more comfortable at cold weather than warm conditions. And the silly American idea that the entire continent of Africa is sweltering hot isn't true. Most of these African runners are coming from high altitude where it isn't that hot.