Is Kevin Young WR the greatest in athletics?

I would agree with the 400m hurdles as the strongest track WR.

in fact i would say that the three strongest records are probably:

400m hurdles > 100m > 110m Hurdles

and then for the field is indeed the Long Jump. For me these are the two strongest men's records (i will leave the throws, race walk and decathlon out of the analysis as i understand little about them).

To support my argument I'll actually 'eliminate' the other records based on three questions?

i) can we can think of a similar historical performance that could have been better than the record itself?

ii) is the next mark very very close to the WR?

iii) do we see any athletes that have tried to break the record recently or could be breaking the record soon?

* Bolt's 200m is very strong but i guess it fails in "ii". Considering their 100m bests and the fact that Bolt himself has said many times he could have lowered his 200m record, i guess this record is maybe safe for the next years, but could certainly have been much lower.

* I guess we all agree Niekerk himself could be the 1st man to dip under 43.00. We've also seen MJ split a 42.9. A very strong record indeed but i don't see why it couldn't be bettered soon.

* Rudisha's 800m for me fails in "i". Wilson Kipketer 1:41"2 is at the very least at the same performance level of Rudisha's 1:40"9, considering how bad was the pacing. Probably a 1'40"5.

* El Guerrouj fails in iii. Kiprop had a shot at this record.

* Komen's 3000m is very interesting. Indeed a very very strong record but I guess we all agree that with his 3:28 speed Mo Farah had at least a shot at it. It is common to argue pro Komen that nobody has ever run close to that time, however El Guerrouj tried to break this WR just once and with very bad pacing has produced a 7:23.Had him tried once again with better pacing he could've gone 7.19-7.21.

* Bekele's 12:37 falls in the same scenario of Komen's. Mo Farah would have a shot at it if he tried. Komen could've run faster maybe.

* Then we have the 10 000m. This is now rarely run event and i guess Bekele's record will be long standing, but we can't put this in front of his own 5000m when Bekele himself has said that this record could have been faster if he wasn't sick a few days before.

* Kipchoge and Bekele are jeopardizing the Marathon WR and could certainly do the same for the HM... if they tried. Kamworor performance in the last HM WC was also on pair with Tadese's WR considering his fall and the weather. So i guess HM and Marathon fail in i), ii) and iii).

* Steeplechase, for sure no. It fails in "ii", plus a few athletes have seen this record within reach in the last 5 years.

* 110m hurdles is very recent but i believe a very strong record. Merritt is 0.07 ahed of the next mark, not as good as Bolt's 100m but still considerable.

For jumps:

i would agree for sure with the Long Jump and for that i'll eliminate the others.

* Triple Jump. True that Edward's 18.29 is there for 22 years now, but remember we had Christian Taylor getting very very close with 18.21 and less aided by the wind (+0.2 whereas Edward +1.2). And we also have Pichardo from Cuba who's jumped twice over 18.00. In fact, I believe the TJ is the WR who is more likely to fall in the next one or two years.

* High Jump. We had a few attempts to break Sotomayor's WR from at least 2 athletes. I guess that's a very strong criteria to determine which record is the strongest. When the record is completely out of sight we don't see that.

* Pole Vault is interesting as nobody was close to Bubka's until Lavillenie, who's done better indoor than outdoor. I guess it is too recent and particular for a decent analysis but history can prove that his 6.16 is one of the strongest records.

as i said i am leaving out the throws, the decathlon, race walk and the relays.

Idiotcoach4life wrote:

Agreed. Watch the video on YouTube. Absolutely unreal how fast he was going. At the 1k mark the announcers I believe say he ran a time that was top 10 in the world for that year and he wasn't even halfway finished with his race. PV isn't really track to me so I've never been impressed with it. Steeple WR is pretty crazy as is 5k. Hard to imagine any of them being beaten. Mile WR seems unlikely to be beaten anytime soon. If African talent shifts its focus back on the track we may see it get broken but right now the top milers aren't even approaching records.

I agree that this record is unreal but I also looked at other attempts on it, in particular Bekele's, and the pacing was never great. Look at his PR, the pacers had some 61-62 laps before he picked it up to finish in 7:25.80 (first 1,000m in 2:29, second in 2:30, third in 2:25)

How did Young do in the Olympics? How about Daniel Komen's 3K record?

ck3237 wrote:

How did Young do in the Olympics? How about Daniel Komen's 3K record?

that WR from young was in the olympics, as evidenced by the olympic rings in the corner of the video embedded in page 1.

MD.. wrote:

I don't thinks it's better than the 400m record

I'm not a big pessimist regarding PEDs, but no way in hell do I believe the 400m record is clean.

usnspecialist wrote:

ck3237 wrote:

How did Young do in the Olympics? How about Daniel Komen's 3K record?

that WR from young was in the olympics, as evidenced by the olympic rings in the corner of the video embedded in page 1.

Pretty sure that's the poster's point: Young set his WR in an Olympic event in an Olympic final. Komen had the 5k record a time or two and won a pretty great WC 5000, but to compete with the 400H record he'd have to have done something a la Rudisha '12. Or Ayala last year!

what's the weakest record in athletics?

DMulvee wrote:

Looking further into this Kevin Young set the world record in 1992, Mike Powell set the world record in 1991 - so a similar time period.

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Great PEDs in use by Americans at this time

DMulvee wrote:

No. The men's long jump is way more impregnable.

In 2016 the best 400mH time was 46.78. This is 2.24% away from the world record.

In 2016 the best long jump in the world was 8.58m. This is 4.13% away from the world record, and this was the longest jump since 2009.

Try again. Only one person even ran under 48 in the hurdles in 2016...

I believe Young set the WR in 1992 Olympics, so I think he won gold.

Lomax wrote:

MD.. wrote:

I don't thinks it's better than the 400m record

I'm not a big pessimist regarding PEDs, but no way in hell do I believe the 400m record is clean.

Nobody is clean at 400

Agree with what someone said earlier, it's likely doped but so are most records. The 90's had no testing for growth hormone and little to no ooc testing. Athletes doped way harder back then as evidenced by the ridiculous women's records still standing from the 80's and 90's.

For men the strongest records are what everyone has already mentioned. The weakest record is the marathon, it will be broken in the next year or two, and then again in another 3-4 years.

Young dropped his PR nearly a full second in his WR year. This after having been in the sport for years. Edwin Moses in his entire CAREER never dropped his PR by such a margin. A consistent 4th placer suddenly wins Olympic gold by a huge margin AND sets a WR in the same race by dropping close to a second from his PR.

itsokyoutried wrote:

DMulvee wrote:

No. The men's long jump is way more impregnable.

In 2016 the best 400mH time was 46.78. This is 2.24% away from the world record.

In 2016 the best long jump in the world was 8.58m. This is 4.13% away from the world record, and this was the longest jump since 2009.

Try again. Only one person even ran under 48 in the hurdles in 2016...

Uhm...ever watch the Olympic final.

I can say this from personal experience. My best 400 was 48.1 and I consistently ran in the 48.4/8 range. It took me a long time to get used to the pain and discomfort and to master the right distribution of effort over the distance to maximize performance.

I started running the 400H shortly after breaking 49 in the open. My first few races were disastrous. You can't underestimate the learning curve. I was a 110 hurdler so there was no issue with form or clearing the hurdles. However, unlike in the sprint where you are trying to get over each hurdle as fast and cleanly as possible to minimize speed disruption, you have to strike the right balance between clearing and "jumping". You want to achieve a comfortable sprint over a longer distance so you can't waste energy on form, you can't lose forward momentum by jumping (being slower in the air), and you absolutely cannot stutter step ~ that's the death sentence. I considered myself an efficient 400H because my best was 49.5, and I consistently ran under 50, which was not too far from my best in the open.

What ultimately counts is your experience running the last 150 keeping it all together. Moses had unreal strength and could afford to approach his races differently and usually win. When you know you could make mistakes and still win you will be the most confident. Kevin was fast and over the years really perfected the first 300. For this one race, he was able to put it all together, most importantly he didn't give up too much momentum and found extra strength to run through the finish fast enough. Kerron is the most talented sprinter of the bunch, there is no question about his ability. He's also a very good hurdler, but it's his speed and strength that allowed him to win often.

It's very hard to explain, but say the formula over the first 100 contains 3 variables. Those variables grow to 10 when you get to the last 100. How do you execute all those variables successfully in the same race? A successful 400 hurdler has to have experienced that pain and lack of situational awareness so often that they start to enjoy the feeling and getting high off the pain. Until you start to welcome the discomfort, you are held hostage to those variables. Once you are comfortable with the inevitable discomfort, you can start to focus on addressing the variables, at first one at a time and hopefully several at once in your best race. You will see Jesus...

Idiotcoach4life wrote:

Agreed. Watch the video on YouTube. Absolutely unreal how fast he was going. At the 1k mark the announcers I believe say he ran a time that was top 10 in the world for that year and he wasn't even halfway finished with his race. PV isn't really track to me so I've never been impressed with it. Steeple WR is pretty crazy as is 5k. Hard to imagine any of them being beaten. Mile WR seems unlikely to be beaten anytime soon. If African talent shifts its focus back on the track we may see it get broken but right now the top milers aren't even approaching records.

2:25 1k is no way top 10 in the world. Any 1:50 guy can do that.

I'd put Paula Radcliffe's marathon WR up there.

It should be 2k, I think.

Nope. It's not even top 20

The highest WR result score stands right now as Gabriele Reinsch, German discus woman. Her throw is so absurd it actually is a further distance than the male discus WR. Amazingly it was not even the third furthest women's discus throw that year, 1988. Her teammate Martina Hellmann had three further throws than that at a mini-meet, but were never ratified.

This record is set prior to random drug testing, but even if you remove all WRs set prior to random testing (1989), Young's WR still falls far short.

As for the men the top five WR result scores are

Zelezny: javelin

Bolt: 100m

Bolt: 200m

Powell: LJ*

Van Niekirk: 400m

* Powell's LJ WR was broken by Ivan Pedroso in 1995, but not ratified in an anti-Castro political move by the Italian federation.

There is currently only one men's WR set prior to random testing, though there are still several for women. Young's WR has a score of 1296, there are 13 men's WRs with a higher score. All of them post random testing. And his record is in a dead heat with three others.

If you include women's WR scores set post-random testing it knocks Young's mark down even further, out of the top 20.

For what it's worth the top five post-random testing, non-throwing WR scores are

1. Bolt 100m

2. Bolt 200m

3. G. Dibaba 1500m

4. Ayana 10K

5. Powell LJ