Verheul method

I guess this method if fine for 5k to HM runners.

But what about 800-1500 guy?

I can't imagine performing with 3kpace being the fastest pace.

Is there adaptations in Klass Lok book for milers?

Impala31 wrote:

I guess this method if fine for 5k to HM runners.

But what about 800-1500 guy?

I can't imagine performing with 3kpace being the fastest pace.

Is there adaptations in Klass Lok book for milers?

Three things in the book that could be helpful for milers - a) Strides a few times a week, b) Anaerobic workout once/twice a week - depending on how much you can sustain individually, c) Race once a week or once in 2 weeks. If racing once a week, then you cut out one or both of the anaerobic workouts.

One example anaerobic workout given is 2 x (400, 300, 200, 100) with 100 recovery. 400 @ 3K, 300 @ 1500, 200 @ 800, 100 @ max.

Impala31 wrote:

I guess this method if fine for 5k to HM runners.

But what about 800-1500 guy?

I can't imagine performing with 3kpace being the fastest pace.

Is there adaptations in Klass Lok book for milers?

Lok's 1500m PR is 3:38, so the Verheul method might have something to offer.

Impala31 wrote:

I guess this method if fine for 5k to HM runners.

But what about 800-1500 guy?

I can't imagine performing with 3kpace being the fastest pace.

Is there adaptations in Klass Lok book for milers?

Klaas was a fine 1500m runner with a 3:38 PB and his team mate, Joost Borm, who trained under Verheul also ran 3.38 for 1500 and 5:01 for 2000m which was a national record at the time.

It should also be noted that Klaas himself admits he wasn't the fastest and I believe he never broke 25 for a flat out 200m so his 1500m time is actually very impressive for some with limited top-end speed.

Norwegian pro wrote:

I don't recommend that. His elder brother coaching him destroyed some talented younger Norwegians.

Who and what are you referring to here? The elder brother of Klaas Lok? Of Verheul?

clarification please wrote:

Norwegian pro wrote:

I don't recommend that. His elder brother coaching him destroyed some talented younger Norwegians.

Who and what are you referring to here? The elder brother of Klaas Lok? Of Verheul?

He's not referring to any of those people.

There was a post in this thread about a Polish dude (I forgot who) who was coached by his brother who also had a unique coaching style. That's who the Norsk dude was referring to. For some reason it was deleted perhaps because it wasn't relevant to the Verheul method specifically.

My main difficulty with this method is that I have trouble with running fast on asphalt/hard surfaces, and whilst there is forest nearby, it is not really suitable for running fast (very hilly, for example). Going to the track every day seems rather tedious and impractical. Thus it is difficult to actually put the method into practise.

I also do think that the method perhaps lacks some ingredients for building raw speed and strength. Whilst it is hard work, it is not true that raw speed cannot be developed at all, and many distance runners would benefit from focused 'pure speed' work sometimes. There are also no hill intervals, for example. It is true that a 'two hour forest session' is part of the method, which includes anaerobic work, but this is not the same thing.

Impala31 wrote:

I guess this method if fine for 5k to HM runners.

But what about 800-1500 guy?

I can't imagine performing with 3kpace being the fastest pace.

Is there adaptations in Klass Lok book for milers?

Sure, he's got sections specific to 1500 meters and 800 meters (that is, 2 different sections).

JS, you should read his book a bit more closely.

You mention "quite fast intervals", but he's advocating easy intervals and generally avoiding faster intervals.

To oversimplify, he advocates one hard workout a week (e.g., a race); the rest of the week is easy running.

To avoid days of slow running, he suggests a variety of easy intervals for the recovery days.

To develop aerobic fitness, there are "long runs" in the form of 6 x 1000 at approx HM pace, with long recoveries.

old and ... wrote:

JS, you should read his book a bit more closely.

You mention "quite fast intervals", but he's advocating easy intervals and generally avoiding faster intervals.

To oversimplify, he advocates one hard workout a week (e.g., a race); the rest of the week is easy running.

To avoid days of slow running, he suggests a variety of easy intervals for the recovery days.

To develop aerobic fitness, there are "long runs" in the form of 6 x 1000 at approx HM pace, with long recoveries.

Have you used this method for long? I did one 6 x 1000m session this week. Found that the pace hovered around just under MP for me, if I try to follow the feeling that the author has suggested and the prescribe HR zones.

Not sure if I can really get down to HM pace without getting into -3 to -5 bpm territory of LT HR. That might be too hard for me, and not be in the 'easy interval' realm.

Limited mitochondrial development seems like a fair critique, but for the vast number of runners who don't run much more than 40 mpw anyway, it's a moot point. I am curious to give it a try for 3-month cycle at some point just to see how it feels.

Jan, I would argue that it is possible to add in some easy 'walk/jog/run fast' sections in the middle of your long run, while not making the run harder overall. Can you point to some study showing that 'mitochondrial development' is better if the run is steady, rather than done in easy intervals?

This study seems to support the idea that moderate interval training develops mitochondria better than steady training.

https://www.abstractsonline.com/Plan/ViewAbstract.aspx?sKey=3beace5f-663d-4be5-bd66-ed6a761f3ce6&cKey=ef6d7984-491f-481d-8b7f-241927c3b694&mKey=3eb8314a-ad3b-4c19-a614-2013255f7f19

I want this book. I'm in India.

What are my options?

donairs wrote:

This study seems to support the idea that moderate interval training develops mitochondria better than steady training.

https://www.abstractsonline.com/Plan/ViewAbstract.aspx?sKey=3beace5f-663d-4be5-bd66-ed6a761f3ce6&cKey=ef6d7984-491f-481d-8b7f-241927c3b694&mKey=3eb8314a-ad3b-4c19-a614-2013255f7f19

Well.......this is a classic study on "one-leg" cykling men, active but untrained before the test.

What happens then is that the HIIT training becomes like a "shock" for the untrained and the brain send signals for mitochondria production to start for tougher work .The mitochondria that

will be produced this way is stronger and more effective than the type of mitochondria that will be produced when running at LSD pace that will be produced in much more density and volume and adapted for endurance work.

Could one then continue this intensive HIIT training and levels of mitochondria of this type production just keep on increase? Unfortunately not. Soon a plateau in improvement and decline will occur.

But here comes another question; Is it possible to merge the two physiological knowledges to get a powerful optimum system ? I know it`s possible ......guess the name of the system? LoL ))

- Your head coach -

curiouscow wrote:

Have you used this method for long? I did one 6 x 1000m session this week. Found that the pace hovered around just under MP for me, if I try to follow the feeling that the author has suggested and the prescribe HR zones.

Not sure if I can really get down to HM pace without getting into -3 to -5 bpm territory of LT HR. That might be too hard for me, and not be in the 'easy interval' realm.

I've been working up to it for a couple of months

(after some time off recovering from a hamstring twinge).

I follow the slow end of his suggested paces for my most recent (before injury) 10K.

Probably optimistic, given the time I took off for injury and recovery.

You're right in that his suggested paces for 1000m are slower than my HM or M paces.

calicer1996 wrote:

I want this book. I'm in India.

What are my options?

Check here:

Book has been read. Going to try and follow 10k schedule for 6 weeks to see how i get on.

Disclaimer: recovering from covid so energy levels are well down.

Mileage doesn't seem too high on the plans I've seen.

update?