AA: Cult or Cure?

subordinate wrote:

12 steps, higher power, helpless over your addition blah blah blah...it can maybe be useful as a support group but you have to set the bizarre doctrine aside.

"I feel like drinking. Using. Acting Out. If only there was someplace I could go where there are other people who feel the same way and can support me through the jitters with good supportive ideas why not to drink, use, act out at this time.

Take what works and leave the rest."

The God Squad stuff is mostly morphed into "a power greater than myself, that can help restore me to sanity..." Or "a higher power as I see a higher power."

For many that is as simple as "I can't do this on my own, I need group support, positive social support to stay clean (that becomes their higher power - a social bridge to other people working on the same problem.

And in Hollywood it is where all the best deals are made ;)

Mr. Obvious wrote:

AA is not a medical treatment for alcoholism. It is not an evidence based practice.

It is a support group that many people have found helpful. I have friends who have been helped by it. I think it is generally a good thing for people.

I also think it is a shame that it is usually the preferred (only, sometimes) option for physicians, courts, and community substance abuse centers. There are evidence based medical practices that are more widespread in other countries (Scandinavia for one) that have had a hard time getting traction here.

Precisely. Well stated.

Very good post. AA in 2016 is far from perfect, but it's likely the best thing going as far as quitting drinking and turning one's life completely around. What's the success rate? Looks to me like it's in the 15% - 20% range. For me personally though, it's 100% so far. And I've been sober over 30 years. I put all my eggs in the AA basket, and the return on that has been astonishingly good. I've seen many die of course; many for whom AA did not work.

Is AA a cult, does it encourage groupthink and unquestioning conformity? In a few cases, at some splinter groups, yes. For the most part, 98% or so, absolutely not.

On page 164, which is the last page of the text of the book Alcoholics Anonymous (the Big Book) is this: "Our book is meant to be suggestive only. We realize we know only a little." That sense of humility helps to sustain imperfect 2016 AA today.

People prioritize personal and anecdotal experiences over reasoned analysis. The best evidence we have suggests AA has a 5% success rate, lower than cold turkey. Yes, many people will claim it is the thing that saved them, but they ignore the emotional vulnerability they were under during the times they first stepped into meetings. When some people go through repeated travails of life failure, they reach a point of susceptibility to just about anything, like Scientology, AA, Rhino horns, and all sorts of magical potions. At that point, they go all in, and for the sake of pride, rationalize their initial decision as life-saving. Sure, do what you want, but realize there are opposing world views with much more sober evidence behind them. To each his own, just don't preach the efficacy of something you clearly haven't studied beyond a personal, anecdotal, emotional connection.

Response Views wrote:

As a third party with no skin in this game, I do notice how the defenders of AA have not provided any reasons beyond anecdotal (it 'worked' for me, etc). My impression was this would be a reasoned discussion.

Another thought: each decision has consequences that are seen and others that are not seen as easily. Nobody here has mentioned the unintended consequences of AA permeating our society as a form of 'treatment.' Imagine an alternate world where alternate types of group therapy permeated each city (Googled Smart recovery).

To the AA people, try to engage some logic in your replies.

You babbling boob...it worked for me is about as logical as you can get.

A non-psychiatrist MD wrote:

AA is fine for individuals

Which is kind of the point isn't it?

th3bt wrote:

If drinking is a problem for you, find a solution. Maybe you are one of those all or nothing types. If so; stop drinking. If AA helps; do it.

Or maybe just stop blaming all the bad stuff in your life on alcohol and grow up. I really hope you are a troll, because if you are real you are just a douche.

You post here and yet you don't know the great and powerful Jamin? Don't ever let him hear that. He considers himself lets run royalty. I consider him a troll and a douche. So in a roundabout way you are completely correct! In this case though he is just being himself/douche.

Dear Steve on a cell in Brooklyn,

Please start drinking again. You are a complete tool and we don't want or need you defending us. You pretentious prick, please just shove a beer in your mouth and shut up.

-AA

If there are opposing world views with much more sober evidence behind them then by all means, share them, advocate for them, throw your support behind them 100%.As one of the drunks in this thread I'm simply saying that being at the end of my rope and walking into a room of people who had been there, could tell me what they used to be like, what happened, and what their lives were like now helped me to realize that I could overcome my problem, too.I don't think AA is the only way to get sober. I'm sure there are lots of other ways that can work for people I recognize that I was incredibly vulnerable when I went into rehab and then AA. What's the harm in that?

Anecdotal Emotional wrote:

People prioritize personal and anecdotal experiences over reasoned analysis. The best evidence we have suggests AA has a 5% success rate, lower than cold turkey. Yes, many people will claim it is the thing that saved them, but they ignore the emotional vulnerability they were under during the times they first stepped into meetings. When some people go through repeated travails of life failure, they reach a point of susceptibility to just about anything, like Scientology, AA, Rhino horns, and all sorts of magical potions. At that point, they go all in, and for the sake of pride, rationalize their initial decision as life-saving. Sure, do what you want, but realize there are opposing world views with much more sober evidence behind them. To each his own, just don't preach the efficacy of something you clearly haven't studied beyond a personal, anecdotal, emotional connection.

I never tried AA. I tried to cut down, tried to drink only on special occasions like holidays, tried drinking only on weekends, tried drinking only past 4 pm, etc, etc..

None of that worked, so I tried "putting the cork in the bottle" for good.

In other words, I stopped drinking 100% - and it has worked for 8+ years now!