Road Racing and Training Thread- Week Ending December 4, 2016

I found some compression socks at WalMart for less than 10 bucks that work well. I believe they are by russell, Helps a lot when I sleep in them. I run in feetures ankle compression socks I love

I know it is hard to cut back, especially when you have a goal race on the calendar, but a little time off now will go a long way later. Smart move.

slo-twitch - Again, awesome job on the 5k PR. 16:18 is cruising and I hope to be there in a few years.

Niceguy542007 - Congrats on the marathon. Is 3:13ish a PR from you. Also a good time now to look back at how far you have come from a 3:40 marathon before you start setting new goals.

Smoove - Must be nice to break your time goals 2 weeks in a row with your 5k & half.

runrincerepeat - Hope you enjoyed your down week & travelling.

Matthias - I'm jealous of the club system in the UK & all the quality XC races you get to run.

Beaverton Cross Kid & Slimshady - Welcome to the thread.

IllinoisRunner - Nice week getting in the hills & also an awesome long tempo

OvO - Welcome

Working Harder - Best of luck racing. Be tough out there.

team1 - I feel you on the calf. I pulled mine this week. Fortunately I'm training for races orders of magnitude shorter than you so I seem to be getting away with doing my quality work in and just skipping on some of the quantity. Also, Christmas is right around the corner so no reason not to pick up a new pair of shoes as a present to yourself.

So I’m thinking about switching training away from Pfitz. It was the first real program I followed and helped immensely (took about 25 mins off PR), but I think I’d be stuck in the same marathon time range of 310-315 if I did it for a third cycle at 55-65 mpw.

I think Hansons could be interesting, with all the MP running (which Pfitz really does lack). And I know Stone Cutter, who used to post here, was a Hansons proponent and a ~2:40-2:50 guy. The oft-discussed lack of long runs does concern me as those tend to be confidence builders. Anyone have any Hansons experience? Ordering the book now (either way, can't hurt to read it) to see if it makes sense.

If I did stick with Pfitz I might just do more MP running during the mid week medium long run (5-6 miles at the end) where appropriate. Just have to break through somehow, and running more miles isn't a real option this spring!

Good luck this week to all.

If you want to get a sense of what Daniels' marathon plan looks like, shoot me an email at

ymca_runner@hotmail.com

and I will send you my Boston training plan. It is based on an 80 mpw peak, and I tweaked it to work for someone in 2:30 or so shape, so it is not exactly what you are looking for, but looking at what he proposes for the quality days might be informative for you.

He only has three runs at MP, but he and the Hansons kind of follow the same theory that you can get more out of moderately long runs (18 miles) if you mix some tempo paced miles into those runs. He does, however, have the traditional 2:00-2:30 long long runs though.

Save you the email - here are the "long days" in my training cycle plan. Starting with next week, ending just before my Boston taper:

16 miles easy

16 miles easy

2 mile warm up; 5 x 1600m (5:22.6) cruise intervals; 8 miles easy

16 miles easy

18 miles easy

2 mile warm up; 5 x 1 mile with 1:00 rest (tempo pace); 8 miles easy

20 miles easy

2 mi up; 4 x 1 mile w/:60-:80 rest; 8 mi easy; 20 min tempo; 2.5 down

13 miles at marathon pace; 17 miles total

20 miles easy

13 miles at marathon pace; 17 miles total

2 mile warm up; 2 x 2 mi tempo w/2:00 rest; 10 mi easy ; 3 mi tempo; 2 mi easy

22 miles easy

2 mi up; 4 x 1 mile at tempo pace w/1:00 rest; 10 miles easy; 4 x mile at tempo pace w/1:00 rest; 2 miles down

22 miles easy

13 miles at marathon pace; 17 miles total

5 miles easy; 3 miles tempo; 5 miles easy; 3 miles tempo; 2 miles cool down

That is some good miles. I have read that 20-22 is about all you need for a long run.

I upped my miles this week off of basically 2 cutback weeks and man my legs are sore. Didnt have that prob before the cutback. I think I went a little hard on Monday maybe.

That's awesome, thanks Smoove. Yeah I need to go back and re-read Daniels, his Q2 program looks tough but I do like the pace variety in those weekly runs. With Pfitz, things sometimes got stale.

I'll definitely revisit it. Man look at this one - 2 mile warm up; 2 x 2 mi tempo w/2:00 rest; 10 mi easy ; 3 mi tempo; 2 mi easy. Doing 2x2 tempo, then trying to get the legs going for 3 more at tempo after just having run 10 miles at easy pace, yowza.

Good luck with training and thanks for the input. With Q2 I know it's up to the runner to figure out the other days' easy running mileage. I have a better feel for that now (versus needing to be spoon fed a schedule before), so I will check out Daniels too. I've got some reading to do!

Definitely one of the toughest workouts in that training cycle other than 13 at mp; which is really tough for me for some reason.

I did that workout twice - once for NYC in 2014, in which case I nailed it (10:36, 10:31 for my 2 mile tempo intervals, 16:00 for my 3 mile tempo). And once for Chicago 2015, in which it nailed me (10:27, 10:42, then had to cut the 3 miler to a 2 miler which I ran in 11:03, fading hard).

Most of my training sessions went better for NYC. Then I had a better race at Chicago. Go figure.