How good is Mo Farah compared to the all-time greats?

I'm curious what makes this a very weak era.

2015

12:53.98

 Yomif Kejelcha (ETH)

Rome

2014

12:54.83

 Muktar Edris (ETH)

Stockholm

2013

12:51.34

 Edwin Soi (KEN)

Monaco

2012

12:46.81

 Dejen Gebremeskel (ETH)

Paris

2011

12:53.11

 Mo Farah (GBR)

Monaco

2010

12:51.21

 Eliud Kipchoge (KEN)

Doha

2009

12:52.32

 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)

Zürich

2008

12:50.18

 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)

Zürich

2007

12:49.53

 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)

Zaragoza

2006

12:48.09

 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)

Brussels

2005

12:40.18

 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)

Paris

2004

12:37.35

 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)

Hengelo

2003

12:48.81

 Stephen Cherono (KEN)

Ostrava

2002

12:55.85

 Salah Hissou (MAR)

Rome

2001

12:56.72

 Richard Limo (KEN)

Zürich

2000

12:49.28

 Brahim Lahlafi (MAR)

Brussels

1999

12:49.64

 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH)

Zürich

1998

12:39.36

 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH)

Helsinki

1997

12:39.74

 Daniel Komen (KEN)

And of course Mo just ran a world lead of 12:59 yesterday

usnspecialist wrote:

With regards to your comment on him being great at everything from 1500-to the half, he does have a truly unique range as far as actual marks put down. He is the only person in history ranked top 100 in 1500/5000/10,000 (T9, 31, 16 on the AT lists respectively), and he is T54 in the half.

Just not correct.

Haile Gebreselassie's positions:

1500: 90

3000: 4

5000: 2

10000: 2

Half-M : 11

Marathon: 7

most of his PBs were achieved in the last millennium

He's slower, a good bit slower than the all time best.

Problem is that we are not comparing apples with apples. Drug testing naivety during the era of the quickest times was far behind what it is now. As a result Mo can't get near the records and probably never will. This results in a lower level of appreciation of his achievements. What we can say through is that he is in the bracket of GOAT championship racers.

I don't think mo is as fast as some people no matter what, his best race is the 1500, and he's great at 10,0000, championship racing is perfect for him because it's not a time trial. He has great times and he wins that makes him a GOAT, because times without winning are meaningless, El G probably wouldn't be the best middle distance runner without the Olympic wins in 2004.

said88 wrote:

usnspecialist wrote:

With regards to your comment on him being great at everything from 1500-to the half, he does have a truly unique range as far as actual marks put down. He is the only person in history ranked top 100 in 1500/5000/10,000 (T9, 31, 16 on the AT lists respectively), and he is T54 in the half.

Just not correct.

Haile Gebreselassie's positions:

1500: 90

3000: 4

5000: 2

10000: 2

Half-M : 11

Marathon: 7

most of his PBs were achieved in the last millennium

i was only factoring outdoor times in my list, geb only ran 3:33.73 outdoors according to IAAF, which is miles off the top 100 list. Indoors is an entirely different animal, especially with most of the races being miles instead of 1500. If it makes you feel better, i can say "farah is the only one in the top 35 all time in the 1500/5000/10,000 regardless of the track or setting". Also considering I limited my research to olympic distances, the 3000 and 1/2 are irrelevant to my statement. There are plenty of examples of guys who make the top 100 in the 5000/10,000/marathon, and I am sure once he moves to the roads for good, farah will be among them.

Also worth noting, Geb only has 1 medal in major international competitions in the 5000 (silver behind Ismael Kirui in 1993 WC). He was pretty much a 10,000m specialist at championships, albeit probably the best that we have ever seen. I would argue that Mo is already ahead of Geb when it comes to track championship credentials, and is pretty much only chasing Bekele at this point. Listed below are the medals each has won in either WC or Olympic games.

Geb: 9 total (6 gold, 2 silver, 1 bronze)

5K Silver- 1 (1993)

10K Gold- 6 (1993,1995,1996,1997,1999,2000)

10K Silver- 1 (2003)

10K Bronze- 1 (2001)

Bekele: 10 total (8 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze)

5K Gold- 2 (2004, 2009)

5K Silver- 1 (2004)

5K Bronze - 1 (2003)

10K Gold- 6 (2003, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009)

Farah: 8 total (7 gold, 1 silver)

5K Gold- 4 (2011, 2012, 2013, 2015)

10K Gold- 3 (2012, 2013, 2015)

10K Silver- 1 (2011)

Mo already has more gold medals than Geb and if he snags the double gold this year, will pass bekele in gold medals and tie him for overall medals. You can make an argument that Geb was hindered by the fact that in 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997 and 2000 there were prelims for the 10K instead of just a straight final, and that impacted the ability to double successfully, but he still had the chance to do that the entire middle portion of his career at the world championships under the current system and never even tried.

That's not my point. We should not longer question if he is cheating.To put this man into this discussion would be laughable before Salazar. But now people agree to disagree he's GOAT or close to it. He says he's clean but he is clearly lying.

This actually matters even if you want to ignore indoors, geb was a 3x 3000m indoor champ, and won the 1500 indoors as well, he has the second fastest indoors 1500 ever.

Also look at how many world XC titles Bekele won.....

Bekele could also have won more 5k titles if he had ran or at the worst medaled; not to mention consistency over time geb was competitive on the track from 93-2008 15 years, Bekele wast even that long(9-10 years) but still longer than mo who's in his 5th year of being competitive.

I don't. The greats were greats when they were youngsters. The dominated as juniors and, in many cases, owned all comers as juniors. Farrah is a Somalian-born Brit who was a "British" standout in his teens and twenties, but way more than a few steps off the world's best for most of his career. Farrah's skyrocket from 27 is a joke. Onbiously a sophisticated doping program that is light years beyond testing. Possibly technological (muscle implant triggers, lactate diffusers, O2 boosters, etc) courtesy of NOP. FYI, NOP invented the dope game. For 15 years now...they're acing the tests before WADA and the like even have the tests.

So no, he compares not. He gets his infamy here and now, but he'll be caught and his legacy ruined. Time gets us all, Mo.

I don't think indoors and cross country mean much in the greatest of all-time discussion. Really, there's outdoor track and the marathon. Farah is soon to have the most outdoor championship golds ever. If Lebron James wins 7 nba titles, he'd probably be considered the best ever, even if doesn't average as many points as Jordan.

I do not consider him nearly as good of a time trialist as Geb, Bekele, El G, etc. Hence the PRs that aren't as strong.... But in championship racing he is absolutely one of the greatest of all time.

Samuel DeChamplain wrote:

This actually matters even if you want to ignore indoors, geb was a 3x 3000m indoor champ, and won the 1500 indoors as well, he has the second fastest indoors 1500 ever.

Also look at how many world XC titles Bekele won.....

Bekele could also have won more 5k titles if he had ran or at the worst medaled; not to mention consistency over time geb was competitive on the track from 93-2008 15 years, Bekele wast even that long(9-10 years) but still longer than mo who's in his 5th year of being competitive.

indoors is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, many athletes choose to train through it. World XC used to be far more important than it actually is (frankly I think that is a shame, but that is irrelevant). The only time you can reliably get the best athletes to line up against each other are the World Championships and Olympic Games, so that is the best comparison to use when talking about championship credentials.

Skeptik wrote:

He's the Terry Bradshaw of distance running. Terrible stats but lots of hardware during a very weak era of track distance running.

Quite possible one of the stupidest comments someone can make. Go ahead and actually look up the times run during Farah's era of distance running. There is nothing weak about what has been run in the past 6-7 years in the world of distance running.

People seem to think that just because the WR holder isn't currently competing that the entire era is weak which is totally ignorant, just like this comment.

Think of the argument this way: Whose career would you rather have? Bekele's, Geb's, or Farah's?

At this point, I'd probably take Geb's because of his success from 1500 all the way to the marathon.

Bekele is a close second, especially given his cross country success. He's been ok at the marathon, but he won't pass Geb until he at least runs faster than 2:03:59.

Farah would be third on my list. He will go down as the best championship runner ever, but he won't have the times or success in xc or the roads that the other two have.

If you take them in their respective primes and line them up for a 5000 or 10000, Bekele and Geb would probably alternate wins. They'd likely set too fast of a pace for Farah to be competitive. Remember, they ran sub 13 for the second 5000 in a 10000 meter race that was won in under 27 minutes. Farah couldn't hang with that. He may have the best kick of the three, but it would have to be a 13:10 plus or 27:20 plus type of race for him to utilize the kick. Any faster, I think they run the kick out of him.

If we're talking 5000, 2004 El-G and 2005-2007 Lagat could very well beat all three of them at 5000 meters. El-G is obviously in consideration for the best 1500-5000 ever. I think Lagat would be, too, if he had been healthy in 2008. I think he would have had a good shot at winning the double gold in Beijing if he hadn't gotten hurt.

dfasfads wrote:

I don't think indoors and cross country mean much in the greatest of all-time discussion. Really, there's outdoor track and the marathon. Farah is soon to have the most outdoor championship golds ever. If Lebron James wins 7 nba titles, he'd probably be considered the best ever, even if doesn't average as many points as Jordan.

If the same people show up at indoors as outdoors, then why shouldn't indoors count? If you say because there is less quality competition, then logically you have to agree that Farah's outdoor golds should be similarly worth less because he is racing lesser competition than Geb and Bekele.

Speaking of Lagat, I just rewatched the Olympic 5000 from 2012. That trip coming off the final turn was worse than I remembered. He basically jogged it in. He would have gotten second for sure and would have had a shot at nipping Farah at the line.

Its hard to compare times from different era's. Dominance is the only true measure. I would agree that Mo lacks another great competitor.

psod wrote:

dfasfads wrote:

I don't think indoors and cross country mean much in the greatest of all-time discussion. Really, there's outdoor track and the marathon. Farah is soon to have the most outdoor championship golds ever. If Lebron James wins 7 nba titles, he'd probably be considered the best ever, even if doesn't average as many points as Jordan.

If the same people show up at indoors as outdoors, then why shouldn't indoors count? If you say because there is less quality competition, then logically you have to agree that Farah's outdoor golds should be similarly worth less because he is racing lesser competition than Geb and Bekele.

the same people dont show up for indoors though, and that is an indisputable fact. Also im not sure you can just automatically devalue farah's gold medals in the manner you say because you have to bear in mind the one dramatic difference between the two eras, drug testing. It is a lot easier for a lot of people to run video game times when the testing is virtually non-existent.