Known FACTS to consider before supporting Galen Rupp/Alberto Salazar/NOP

in other words, you've got nothing useful to add

He has been called out on it, constantly. It's not my job to strip people of records, I am merely a fan of the sport of running. If he lost his silver, I would not lose any sleep or shed a tear, but at this point in time, I want Rupp to represent the US and hopefully win a lot of races.

It seems like the majority of people who complain about Rupp are either:

1. Spectators - whose opinion doesn't carry any weight with me

2. Past their prime runners - whose opinion doesn't carry any weight with me

3. Current competition well below Rupp's caliber - Who I believe should spend more time training. It has been proven that you could probably beat Rupp in a 13:25 or 27:20 race at this point. So get yourself to that level and take him down.

The one group of people whose opinion would really resonate with me are the ones who are very close to his level, and who could beat him on occasion. Ryan Hill, Hassan Mead, Ben True. It's not a long list, but if ANYONE should be the people to cause a fuss about losing a spot to Rupp, it's these guys.

In other words, you need to take your NOP blinders off.

So your stance is that, even if Rupp is doping (and the facts in the OP certainly indicate that he is), ONLY Hill, Mead, and True should be calling him out on it? Huh?

It's on the ENTIRE RUNNING COMMUNITY to call out flagrant dopers. That is the ONLY WAY track can ever achieve its "clean sport" ideal. This is why I have so much respect for the Brojos--they are willing to ask the tough questions and aren't afraid to point out BS (well, except when it comes to Paula, lol). The more whistleblowers, the better.

People like you who stick your heads in the sand and pretend like doping isn't rampant are part of the problem. Everyone at Hayward who cheers for Rupp is part of the problem. You are giving Rupp and Alberto more incentive to continue doping.

And yes, I know the East Africans aren't clean either. Obviously the entire Aden crew is microdosing EPO, and the Dr. Rosa stuff isn't good for Kiprop. But two wrongs don't make a right, etc.

Nobody in America is anywhere close to Galen with our without testosterone so who the hell cares? Even if he's using every drug imaginable, as long as he doesn't get caught Im all on board for it. Go get us a medal.

I guess that's where we agree to disagree. If 50% of the field is doping, I don't really care. I'm not running the race. If I were on the level of the guys who compete with Rupp, and I truly thought that I would beat him if I went into the "gray area" like him, I would most likely go there myself.

agreed

Almost everyone who supports Rupp also falls into one of these categories. In fact almost everyone who follows US track and field does. How do you personally not fall into one of these categories?

Also, if Rupp is getting aid by prohibited means, it is that much harder to "get yourself to that level and take him down." That's the point.

I don't know where you pulled those 13:25 and 27:20 numbers from by the way. Rupp has broken 26:50 not that long ago. Maybe he's vulnerable at 5k nowadays but conditions have to be pretty awful for him to get beat by an American running 27:20 and it's really hard to imagine any of his American opponents running that fast under the same conditions.

try to keep up ... wrote:

In other words, you need to take your NOP blinders off.

you know nothing about me or my views.

you pretend to knowledge you don't have and make judgments without facts

that behavior is epidemic here

I would fall into the "spectator" category. I was just saying that one spectator's opinion (like that of the OP) does not change my opinion on Rupp. Nor would a 13:45 guy saying he has a problem with Rupp.

I pulled the 13:25 number because Rupp recently lost a 5K in a race wherein he ran 13:27. That's 30 seconds off of his PR. I do not think Rupp is in 26:50 shape at the moment. His finishing speed isn't at 100%, so I believe, based on my years and years of watching track, that Rupp could be beat by someone who runs 27:20 and has a good kick.

What I think is problematic about the whole anti-NOP stance, particularly from people competing with Rupp, is that it puts pseudo-limits on clean performances.

So if Rupp ran 12:58/26:48 dirty, then a clean athlete shouldn't shoot for those times. They go into training thinking that they are not capable of competing without the aid of some sort of banned substance.

Rupp is beatable, but I don't think many people are actually putting in the work to beat him, I also believe that many runners have the same opinion as the other poster who said (paraphrasing) "a clean 28:45 is better than Rupp's 27:55 at the trials" Take Rupp out of the equation, and a 28:45 is objectively not very good.

Every NOPer is a doper. elfie rupp is a doper, roid rage rowbury is a doper, doorbell mo is a doper, roid chacne centro is a doper, beet juice hasay is a doper

[quote]tired stuff wrote:

you know nothing about me or my views.

-- you are a NOP fanboy.

you pretend to knowledge you don't have and make judgments without facts

-- I know WADA stated that several athletes from 2008 tested positive this year on restesting. Google it.

that behavior is epidemic here

-- you are a troll

Your Score = 0/10

The facts are damning wrote:

Testosterone is a banned substance. There is nothing "gray zone" about abusing testosterone. Gray zone = other stuff Alberto experiments with, like thyroid medication (cytomel), asthma medication, etc.

FYI, it's not "banned" if it isn't detected, AND THEN the federation has to sanction it.

As a general reminder, the vast majority of humans are about 1:1 T:E ratio. Plenty of room for some androgel at night, then wake up in the morning never testing positive when the sport's threshold for a positive is 6:1.

The whistleblower group also went to Dr. Brown. The irony here is pretty outstanding.

6. Salazar and Rupp have been boinking eachother since he was 15.

Beaverton Employees,

It has come to my attention that there is another Letsrun thread making outrageous doping accusations against Alberto and Galen. Please dedicate any free time you might have today to disputing these claims. Or else.

Sincerely,

Boss Man

P.S. And I mean fcking NOW, you peasants!

Lenny Leonard wrote:

and who could beat him on occasion. Ryan Hill, Hassan Mead, Ben True. It's not a long list,...

Hill, Mead, True beating Rupp? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

LET ME CATCH MY BREATH...WHOA, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Do you even watch track and field? hahahahahahahahahaha

barefoot and preggo wrote:

Hill, Mead, True beating Rupp? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

2015 5k US Championships

Place Name Affiliation Time Heat (Pl)

1 Ryan Hill Nike / Bowerman 13:50.69 1 (1)

2 Benjamin True Saucony 13:51.09 1 (2)

3 Galen Rupp Nike / Nike Or P 13:51.54 1 (3)

DO YOU EVEN WATCH TRACK AND FIELD?????? AHAHAHAHAHAH

Rupp uses the 5K as a workouT SEE HIS 13:25 10K SPLITS, faster than Mead and True can run on their best day. Rupp can literally (and did) jog a 13:50. Are you new here? Who doesn't know Rupp runs 5Ks as a workout? Does it all the time. Did it two weeks ago at Stumptown

Also, we're TALKING ABOUT THE 10K

TRY TO KEEP UP MORON!!!!

TRUE, MEAD AND HILL WILL NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER BEAT RUPP AT THE 10K AND YOU KNOW IT!!

hhhahahahahahahahahahhahahaAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHA

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

DA*N YOU PEOPLE ARE STUPID

You are saying that you don't care about essentially anyone's opinion of Rupp. That's probably fair considering USADA hasn't yet established that he did anything wrong. Personally, I find the evidence

I also hate it when people set some performance standard as the barrier between clean and dirty but I disagree with the notion that people just have to start "putting in the work to beat him." If he's using PEDs, then he's taken a short-cut to get where he is--a short-cut that likely enhances recovery letting him outwork his competitors. To simply say that his competitors have to work harder ignores the fact that there is a limit to how hard an athlete can work without getting injured or overtraining.

In the end it's really hard to have these discussions because there are no hard numbers available for how much different PEDs help elite runners. Take EPO for example. Estimates range from studies on untrained athletes showing a 7% improvement to Renato Canova's opinion that it doesn't help the best of the best at all. So we have a range of 0-7% improvement coming from EPO. If the advantage is small, say less than 0.5%, then I would agree largely with your point of view. If on the other hand the advantage is large, say 5%, then everyone is on them and endurance sports are a complete sham. My guess is it's likely somewhere in the middle, say 2% (that's about 5 sec/mi--the difference between Genzebe Dibaba running 3:50 and 3:55). It's just a hunch. Anyway, the problem is that if the drug advantage is on the order of 2% and a person who is one of the best nationally anyway (e.g. Rupp) gets a hold of them, they are suddenly nearly unstoppable because 2% is 30sec for a 10k and that's a lot.

I'll stop with the What if Rupp..., What if 2%... hypotheticals. The evidence demonstrates that Salizar sure is sketchy but I don't know for sure what Rupp is doing. I just know that I personally have enough doubts that I won't feel the same sense of pride if he wins a silver medal this time around.