Caster Semenya is rolling down under!! She's already run 51 and 2:00! Will the courts decide the women's 800 in Rio?

no longer concerned leftist wrote:

jjjjjj wrote:

There's nothing liberal about supporting the rights of anyone to compete against women in women-only competition.

Ah! That's the good old libtard again!

FYI: Your conservatard rating is still a perfect 100% since you were able to work "libtard" into the 2 sentences you barely managed to bang out on your keyboard. Bravo!

Lot of men in college can't run 1:48,so what's your point.

agip wrote:

It's pretty much over for women's track.

100% women will have to move to something else.

unless they change the rule again.

This is a very complicated issue because having naturally high testosterone levels as a women is a much an indication of talent as having fast twitch muscles, a high Vo2 max or long legs, etc. I am almost certain if we could go back and test Fanny Blankers-Koen and Babe Zaharias-Didrikson, they would show high t-levels relative to the average female. On one side of the coin, you don't to want to penalize an athlete for the way they where born, but at the same time, you can't have females competing against females whose t-levels are equal to taking an anabolic steroid. There is so much physiological grey area when it come to sex, that the only fair thing to do is toss out the whole notion of gender. Even if a woman has a fully functional penis, if she identifies as a women, she should be allowed to compete as woman so long as her t-levels don't exceed a certain level.

TrackCoach wrote:Even if a woman has a fully functional penis, if she identifies as a women, she should be allowed to compete as woman so long as her t-levels don't exceed a certain level.

I wonder what the response would be if a male "woman" (with penis) with low t-levels won olympic gold in a women's event. Obviously it would be very negative, so I don't think any reasonable male would do such a thing. Maybe a sociopath. Even Semenya got so much negative feedback, so imagine an actual male. What is more important, winning or integrity?

The only fair standard is to only allow XX chromosome females to compete in women's events.

Anyone with a Y chromosome is not allowed to compete in women's events.

But chromosome testing, so00oo invasive!

El Correcto poster wrote:

The only fair standard is to only allow XX chromosome females to compete in women's events.

Anyone with a Y chromosome is not allowed to compete in women's events.

Chromosome testing apparently leads to many false-positives, due to e.g. androgen insensitivity, XY gonadal dysgenesis, so it's not useful. T-level limit seems fine for now, but we'll see how it goes.

If actually some great male athlete decides to to compete as a woman, and breaks a WR, then there is clearly a problem. But it's not yet known how much lowering the t-level will lower performance. If performance is lowered less than 10% then that is a big problem.

So let me get this right. We think, from unverified reports, that Semenya has (a) undescended testes and (b) no ovaries or womb. Does she have a penis, or are we not permitted to know this because the right of a small minority of men to "identify" as women is put before the welfare of the entire population of women? I do know that in animals, undescended testes can often cause problems in castration and that the behaviour which necessitated the castration, due to higher testosterone levels than in females, isn't ameliorated until the testes are removed. Its quite well established in veterinary circles.

Clearly, we need an internationally agreed upon international definition of women, along with a criterion that those of indefinite sex cannot compete in the more facile category.

But as long as there is sport, there will be ever more inventive ways of cheating. Hopefully in 30 years time, we will look back upon this period of cranky liberalism ruining sport as nothing but mass idiocy, in a similar way we look back upon all those drugged up East German and Russian runners producing unbelievable times, just as we will the time when nearly all the 2012 women's field in the Olympic 1500m testing positive for drugs at some point or other.

Of course, if "Caitlyn Jenner", former Olympic mens' decathlon champion had decided earlier on in his life to declare that he preferred to identify as a woman, we would have a fantastic world record decathlon score to look back upon.

Why is it always women who seem to suffer from liberal policies the most?

Alan Webb's Goggles wrote:

So let me get this right. We think, from unverified reports, that Semenya has (a) undescended testes and (b) no ovaries or womb.

Semenya, either in a statement or interview years ago, said that she refused to undergo any surgical procedure to be eligible to compete. The only surgical procedure in this case would be orchidectomy. Therefore, we can assume with a pretty high level of confidence that she has testes.

You've decided that this is a liberal, rather than a lawsuit-averse, policy. Why? Women are aided by liberal policies and that is why so many side with the Democratic Party, which stands for their right to work, to receive fair pay, to not be discriminated against. And their status has improved markedly since the 1960s due to such policies. U.S. women's athletics, for instance, would be nowhere what it is today without Title IX. Some of these policies, like Title IX, either hurt men or are applied by universities in such a way to hurt men (saving them money by giving them an excuse to cut a men's team, for instance).

female athletics is a joke wrote:

big 800 fan wrote:

why don't we create a third olympics. We have the regular olympics, the paralympics and hyperandrogenism olympics.

We just need to restrict the women's events to those without a Y-chromosome. Anyone with a Y-chromosome must compete in an open class. It's so simple. And they did it in Worlds 2002. But for some reason it's politically incorrect. The losers are those without a Y-chromosome, i.e. REAL WOMEN, who have no chance competing against Y-chromosome humans.

What about microchimerisim?

El Correcto poster wrote:

The only fair standard is to only allow XX chromosome females to compete in women's events.

Anyone with a Y chromosome is not allowed to compete in women's events.

Hands Off My Body wrote:

But chromosome testing, so00oo invasive!

Not as invasive as blood tests.

keanu wrote:

female athletics is a joke wrote:

We just need to restrict the women's events to those without a Y-chromosome. Anyone with a Y-chromosome must compete in an open class. It's so simple. And they did it in Worlds 2002. But for some reason it's politically incorrect. The losers are those without a Y-chromosome, i.e. REAL WOMEN, who have no chance competing against Y-chromosome humans.

What about microchimerisim?

Must compete in the open category if the acquired Y-chromosomes are likely to have influenced on the performance ability of the athlete in question.

There will never be a perfect division of the two genders. But it doesn't need to be as ridiculous as it is now.

Alan Webb's Goggles wrote:

So let me get this right. We think, from unverified reports, that Semenya has (a) undescended testes and (b) no ovaries or womb. Does she have a penis, or are we not permitted to know this because the right of a small minority of men to "identify" as women is put before the welfare of the entire population of women? I do know that in animals, undescended testes can often cause problems in castration and that the behaviour which necessitated the castration, due to higher testosterone levels than in females, isn't ameliorated until the testes are removed. Its quite well established in veterinary circles.

Lol she doesn't have undescended testes. There is no scrotum, she is not a man "identifying" as a woman. She doesn't have a penis. And also a woman without a womb or ovaries is still female, most would agree.

I'm sure undescended testes do cause problems with castration in animals, due to them not being in the right place, but what on earth does that have to do with the issue of intersex athletes?

Also, typically male behaviour that may be caused by testosterone (aggression etc) isn't performance enhancing.

Semenya herself has done nothing wrong and is not trying to decieve anyone or cheat. Talking about genitals is useless in this debate about the potentially unfair sports performance enhancing effects of the intersex condition in women. And she definitely is not a man.

the problem is,whilst they are not really women,theyre not men,either,and its most likely semenya,francine niyonsaba,margaret wambui,and dorcas ajok all have vaginas.i dont know what the answer is for them,myself.the gender of kabange mupopo,the 400 metre runner from zambia has also been questioned more than once,maria mutola's gender was questioned,and botswana paralympian tshotlego morama has come out as intersex,and now identifies as a man.

Metric Miler wrote:

Lol she doesn't have undescended testes.

How do you know; did you go on a date with him.

Misguided Miler wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

Lol she doesn't have undescended testes.

How do you know; did you go on a date with him.

I know because undescended testes is a condition that occurs in newborn baby boys. Internal testes are not undescended testes lol. Tbh I just wanted to point this poster out as being wrong because the rest of his post was mostly junk also but I couldn't be bothered to go through it all.

So you claim to know that Semenya does not have undescended testes. And that this is a "condition that occurs in newborn baby boys" (obviously you then try to claim that "internal testes" is something entirely different and make no comment on whether you know that Semenya has these or not.

(no idea why you would know such intimate detail but its presumably something to do with your self-proclaimed omnipotence, which unfortunately isn't apparent from what you post).

Would you like to explain the difference between undescended testes and internal testes? And how you can possibly know whether the individual in question has either (bearing in mind that hardly all undescended testes are treated at birth).

Then try to have a little think about the reasons a child might be raised as female if the male sexual organs are not visibly present, particularly in a poor part of South Africa.

Then think about how you really know whether or not Semenya doesn't have any form of mature testes in her body. (how you would know this is a little bit disturbing, but lets let it lie).

Its even more disturbing than your claim that the effects of testosterone on behaviour has no competitive advantage.

Who are you trying to fool, and why? Why are so afraid of someone asking perfectly reasonable questions, and why are you trying to humiliate anyone who does so? Do women keep beating you in races and are you trying to get back at them by messing up their sport?

Its only in recent years that women have been "allowed" to run farther than 800m in competition. Clearly some men are still so uncomfortable with them running that they have to make up all sorts of excuses for other individuals to get into that category to even things up.

I found this information to be helpful.

https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001669.htm

The treatment recommendations are interesting, and hopefully will be followed. It seems the default gender chosen for many newborns with intersex conditions was female. Patience is now counseled, allowing the child time to develop into the gender with which they identify.