MAGNESS'S NCAA team < Woodlands High school team

How is it that local high schools can produce better runners than MAGNESS

Rojo???

show me a great basketball or football coach that doesn't WIN, doesn't PRODUCE.

You always reference this John Kellogg because he helped make you excellent, not because he helped you finish 24 out of 25

Look at the top teams and the talent they got out of high school (or any of the junior ranks in the international scene) and then look at the recruits at a school like UH. Collegiate running is all about recruiting. Even terrible coaches can get good results if they bring in the talent. I have been on a top 15 D1 xc team and the coach was, in my opinion, pretty bad. He recruited like a champ and continues to do so, but almost nobody has long term success and continual improvement. I have friends from other teams with the exact same experience. Can't blame the coaches because they get the results, but they aren't athlete focused. UH just doesn't have the scholarship money to compete with schools that are bringing in international athletes and US top tier HS guys.

How can we judge if Magness is a good coach? Look at his athletes individually, do they improve year to year? You can look that up for yourself if you want to pass judgment.

yes that correct. Google caleb beachum UH and see how much he has improved under madness's coaching

I get your pun but knowing Magness' history, it's probably the opposite - older men preying on young women.

So why are people needlessly bashing Steve?

The Woodlands HS- 'Insane program'?

I guess that depends on your experiences.

Most who don't know anything about my program jump to conclusions that just because a runner runs fast that must mean they are being run into the ground.

I have a tiered mileage program depending on the age of the person...freshmen do the least, seniors the most...

Ex. I had a sophomore run 4:17 for 1600m last year on 48mpw average...a junior run 4:15 on 55mpw...

*actually I had 5 juniors sub 4:20 on that mileage...

'Insane'?? Not in my opinion.

In my locker room is potentially the next great American distance runner. I give great thought into their training where their best years will hopefully be in college (*while knowing that they have to produce in high school to catch the eye of a solid collegiate running program).

Our program has helped produce approx 13 NCAA All Americans (D1,D2) in cross and track. 7 of those are distance runners.

Haters still gonna hate I guess...

Have a great evening everyone.

J.

For no reason, then?

running commune wrote:

So why are people needlessly bashing Steve?

Jealous of his success obviously. Got a nice coaching job, coaches some good elite runners, and is widely respected. As you'll notice with the comments on here bashing The Woodlands (and FM and Saugus and Great Oaks and York and...), if you're successful, you're guaranteed to be hated by lesser men.

The woodlands has a 10 mile radius to get athletes and can still outperform UH who can recruit statewide and nationally. Hence the title of this thread.

If this is considered success for magness I'd hate to see failure.

The woodlands has a 10 mile radius to get athletes and can still outperform UH who can recruit statewide and nationally. Hence the title of this thread.

If this is considered success for magness I'd hate to see failure.

As someone who ran ran for both programs and is still running for Steve I would like to weigh in on this.

I can assure you Steve is one of the most knowledgable and forward thinking coaches around. UH may not bring in the top teir distance runners this nation has to offer but are the athletes improving on a season to season and a year to year basis? Are Steve's non-collegiate athletes improving? Yes, they are. An athletes improvement is a much better measure to judge one's coaching ability than looking at a single race against other teams.

The Woodlands high school has a fine program. To think that what they do is "insane" is just ignorant. The coach cares deeply about his athletes and their future success and it shows. We all know what it takes to be successful at this sport and it involves a tad bit of insanity. Running after high school is not for everybody.

I'm sorry no wrote:

rojo wrote:

You do realize he coaches at the University of Houston right?

Wetmore's Seton Hall teams - man they were national powers - not.

Under your theory, it's all about coaching so Oberlin should have been better than D1 teams when Lananna was there?

Rojo, I find it odd your stance on this... From other previous posts too... You seem to think recruiting talent is the key. But yet you witnessed what JK did with your brother....

Statements like "the athlete makes the coach" BS! JK made your brother! Statements like that seem to go against everything that Wejo wrote in the article "why I sucked in college" or whatever...

JK trained the crap out of wejo with ridiculous mileage. He became good for a short while but then had his career destroyed by injuries. Any idiot coach can do that.

Athletes should improve almost by default just from getting older, so just improving is not something to brag about. The only standard we should measure the coach by is race results against other teams.

Are Steve's athletes becoming more competitive? Is the team starting to win conference championships or are they on the verge of qualifying for nationals? No. The men are 7th in a weak region, and 7th is probably generous too.

First, I think Magness is in a no-win situation. He lacks the institutional tools to create a top-20 NCAA program, therefore CANNOT coach his way to a top-20 program, therefore "fails."

However, I think this whole situation brings up a more interesting point, and one that was glaring in Rojo's experience at Cornell. It's very difficult for a coach, even a smart motivated one, to turn a random program into a great program. I'm sure when Magness got this spot at Houston he thought to himself, "Give me 2-3yrs and we will be at Nationals. I've seen bozo coaches do it, I can totally do it." There are more factors in building a national-caliber program than the smarts and efforts of one assistant coach.

All that said, Magness has not done well at Houston. Regional results of 11th/16th and 11th/17th in the last two years is not "success" or even progress towards "success."

lackofknowledge wrote:

I believe that most of the upperclass weren't his recruits and he is getting a lot out of them. Further, running your kids to death via an insane program in HS(Woodlands) isn't success. Let's see what they do post-HS. Finally, Magness's #1 is a stud and a sign of things to come.

After running for The Woodlands I wouldn't say the program is insane. Do the athletes buy into the program and commit a lot of their time? Yes, yes they do. The Woodlands has a very unique program and environment thats hard to replicate. I can honestly say my time running for The Woodlands was one of the best experiences of my life no matter the outcome. On the boards theres typically a lot of trash talk about the big nationally recognized programs and how the athletes "burn out" or are "run to death". Running in college isn't for everyone, that doesn't make them unsuccessful or a "burn out". At the end of the day the measure of ones success isn't how fast they run in college or where they go, its the person they've become. I can full heartedly say Coach Green and The Woodlands program has set me up for a lifetime of success. Many of my previous teammates have gone on to run in college and gone a few routes. Some love the college running and have excelled, others have found out its not for them and run for fun, or stopped running all together. Whatever the path traveled one thing has held true, they all know how to be successful in life. I think running as a sport in general teaches you great life lessons and how to persevere through tough times to get to the good times.

On a second note I have the utmost respect for Magness. He's a great guy and has a passion for everything to do with running and the science behind it. Everyone can bash on him and say he hasn't done much or whatever they want to say. He might not have a team of sub 14:00 5k guys, but he does believe in his athletes and wants to see them improve. Its honestly a shame the distance program at Houston doesn't have a little bit more support and resources.

Sincerely a run to death burnt out washed up ex collegiate runner ;)

You can't keep using Houston's scholarships or resources or lack of support as an excuse. There are plenty of teams out there doing much better with much less. Even D2 and D3 schools.

Besides, if a coach wants more scholarships/resources/etc, he needs to earn it. The coach needs to demonstrate that he has the recipe for success and that the extra resources would not go to waste. For example: No AD is going to all of a sudden drastically increase support for a 0-30 basketball team. But if the team sneaks into the NCAA tournament and plays a close game against a high ranked team, the AD will start to believe that with extra resources that team can be a serious contender. Magness has not shown any sign of making his team a contender.

I don't think Magness is the issue, I think recruiting kids to run at Houston is tough. A lot of the top caliber kids in the state of Texas can go run at UT, A&M, Baylor, Rice, and get more of the college experience and say they go to a more prestigious school. Don't get me wrong Houston is a great school but right now it has too much of a commuter feel and reputation. Its going to take some time before this will change. UH pouring its money into the football and basketball program doesn't help either. If you want to attract kids to come to your school you need to provide and be on the same level as other teams in the state. I'd love to see the numbers for all the distance programs in the state and actually compare the numbers, scholarships, funding, etc. Maybe its just common sense that Magness needs to show some results, but I don't think thats the case.

Magness gets billed as a great coach because he takes pains to bill himself as a great coach through twitter and other outlets.

FURMAN