Simple: a clean Webb vs a clean El G

i highly doubt it

here is hicham running a 2'47.0+ finish virtually route-1 :

Ryun in his 3'33.1WR on dirt in 95F, ran ~ 3m extra wide on 1st bend of that last 1200 for a 2'46.6 finish, worth probably 2'46.1+ for route-1

& that was a tactical 1200 as Keino slowed down on 1-lap to gather himself for a kick, so Ryun couda probably gone well into 2'45s if flat-out the whole last 1200 route-1

look at that hicham last 1200 & then consider Ryun on dirt in brutal heat, ran a last 1200 which was likely 10++m superior

no

they don't

the huge majority of guys i have read here, mostly americans are far too conservative in assessing him

if that 1500WR had been fast from the gun & not execrable jog for initial 300m, & Keino running fast to bell, Ryun wouda run 3'28+ on dirt in 95F in '67

the 1st run that actually was definitely recorded faster was morceli's 3'27+ on synthetic in much more temperate weather in '95

that wouda given Ryun a near 30y tenure of 1500WR

no

Ryun on a '70s track in his peak '67 shape was good for 1'39.9 off his 1500 training, & 3'24.2 for his primary event which he trained for

when someone runs faster than those or exhibits an intrinsic performance superior to those, then they are the fastest we have ever seen

nonsense

no one is shifting the goals

you really have no clue

no disrespect to webb, but all he was good for at his peak wouda been to pace Ryun to the bell, not actually be deemed worthy to race him

he wouda have to have been renamed

"kipwebb"

So hath thou wrote:

reader of the forums wrote:

You've outed yourself.

So have you, ventolin.

I love how you keep repeating this.

It really is funny because of just how wrong you are. Ventolin and I are literally an ocean apart.

You are so fvcking stupid.

So 1:44.3 and 3:33.1 go to 1:39.9 and 3:24.2 lol. Cinders of course have an effect but ever heard of Peter Snell? What was his grass 1:44.3 worth then? I'm gonna guess 1:38?

I assume that with those personal bests Ryun could also have challenged the 400m WR of the time, and simultaneously held the 5000m WR of the time lol.

You seem so intelligent, then you say such ridiculous things.

If Ryun could run 3:24 then Guerrouj could sub 3:20. Different class of athlete.

yes

you clearly have no clue about Ryun's races or logical analysis of them

no

who is he ???

did he run against any kenyans/ethiopians/north africans ???

on a cricket pitch hard track, probably 1'43.3 - 1'44.3 depending on hardness of track

likely little different from '70s synthetic as grass tracks couda been rolled to near-concrete hardness

i suggest you go look up the perth cricket pitch of '70s

you are utterly clueless if you believe that

no

utterly clueless

on a '70's synthetic i reckon he was good for 45-flat at '67 peak

as tommy smith ran 44.5y on dirt in that era, worth probably 43-mid on a '70s synthetic, to be 1.5s outside of best 400 runner of era shows you have no clue

utterly inept

you can't seem to think

who has ever claimed anything ever for 5k ???

i make a decent living with what intelligence i have

clueless

you have no ability to apply logic

no

at his peak in 3'26wr, he couda run 3'25-low if he'd got "perfect" race not necessitating a 53.2 kick

clueless

show me when hicham ran a 36.5 last 300 with an 11.6 in a 3'38 or faster, let alone on a dirt track ???

hicham was probably a 1'41-high/1'42-flat / 3'25-low guy at his peak in '98 albeit he was in likely very similar shape in '02

Who cares what shape he was in,the dude was doped to the eyeballs

You may as well discuss the efficacies of all the different peds he was on as discuss his times

Well anyone that can run 3:24 for the 1500m could run 13 flat or faster for the 5k. Waste of time talking to you tbh.

Ryun was never good for sub 1:43 or 3:30, even with all the drugs he was on.

Kip Keino showed him a clean pair of heels.

Ok mate. wrote:

Well anyone that can run 3:24 for the 1500m could run 13 flat or faster for the 5k. Waste of time talking to you tbh.

Ryun was never good for sub 1:43 or 3:30, even with all the drugs he was on.

Kip Keino showed him a clean pair of heels.

True. Ventolin will repeat the same nonsense time and time again, thinking that if he says it enough times people will believe him.

He's already been confronted with historical weather statistics showing that the maximum temp reached in LA the day of Ryun's 3:33 was somewhere in the 70's. But it supports his agenda to believe the exaggerated anecdotes of Ryun himself recalling things 40+ years later.

The track had been re laid and he was drafted most of the way by Keino.

Ventolin seems ignorant to the idea that Ryun was able to run a last 1200 in 2:46 because the first 300 was slow. If it had been in 42 then his last 1200 would have been significantly slower.

Ryun was good for 3:30-3:31 on a synthetic track, nothing more.

His last 300 in 36.5 just shows he had a fantastic kick in a slow race. You can't extrapolate 3:24 ability from one 300m split in a slow race. Lol.

And there is no official 200 split in that race, so an 11.6 100m split is utter conjecture.

A 1:39 800 is so ludicrous it doesn't warrant any further discussion.

Ok mate. wrote:

Ryun was never good for sub 1:43 or 3:30, even with all the drugs he was on.

You know that he was on drugs? Wow. Were you his dealer? Do tell.

Ok mate. wrote:

Kip Keino showed him a clean pair of heels.

He must have been doing his best Jim Ryun impression. He was shown how to do it first hand quite a few times prior to Mexico City. And after.

nonsense

only an idiot woud attempt to predict a 5k for a 1500/800 guy

you can predict 800 off 1500 as that 800 is shorter & "built in"

a 5k is nonsensical for a 1500/800 guy if they haven't trained for it

a 3'24 guy coud run anywhere between

12'28 - infinity

nonsense

this is my opinion applying logical analysis with 40++y of watching sport & seeing on tv/satellite virtually every euro elite race i wanted bar a handful

lets see how analytical/logical you are :

how long it take you to solve this, if you can even solve it ???

nonsense

Ryun says here it was damn hot & scoreboard showed 95F !!!

no guy forgets circumstances of destroying 1500WR by 2.5s !!!

utter nonsense

see vid above

were you in stadium in '67 to disprove 95F ???

eh ?

re-laying dirt is still dirt

it is ~ 1.015 slower than synthetic for assumed “pristine” dirt, meaning 1st race of meet as inferred from epstein

this wasn’t 1st race of meet, but later on when track chewed up & therefore conversion 1.015+/lap or even 1.015++/lap !

clueless

Ryun ran 300 - 400 at start wide out, into lane 2, adding ~ 3m to distance

Keino drafted him only to 1200, when Ryun blasted past him

Keino’s pacing was poor as he wasn’t attempting to draft but win race !!!

he went 56+ which was huge on dirt in 95F, but then slowed to 58+, which was obviously a tactical move trying to save himself for the kick on last 300/400

clueless

i posted hicham’s 2’47.0 finish to give a visual idea of how fast Ryun ran that last 1200

it was ~ 6+m quicker accounting for wide run by Ryun at 300 - 400 in compared to hicham who ran that last 1200 virtually route-1

it doesn’t include fact Ryun was not flat out in that last 1200 apart from 100 - 200 of start & last 300

he just cruised behind Keino for 700m, with Keino not flat-out that 700m but slowing to save himself for kick

hicham ran virtually flat-out last 1200, route-1, on synthetic NOT chewed-up dirt costing 1.015++/lap & NOT at 95F in smog capital of western world !!!

stating damn obvious !

i have thought long & hard over 42s start for years

my conclusion has been that instead off 2’46.6, with ~ 3m extra included of wide-bend running at the 1st bend of it & “tactical” pacing from Keino, who was not pacing per-se, but trying to kill Ryun’s kick, when slowing from 56+ to 58+, imo, Ryun’s last 1200 wouda been

~ 2’46-mid/high

unchanged for a

route-1, flat-out last 1200

on that chewed-up dirt, tactical last 1200 at 95F !!!

drivel

try more like on ‘70s synthetic :

3’24.2

drivel

that was a 3’38.2 on abominable chewed-up dirt, where a 10k had been run immediately before !!!

that musta chewed-up the 1.015s/lap conversion of epstein to the 1.015++/lap

so, that gets his 36.5 finish in 3’38.2 to :

< < 35.9 in a < < 3’34.9 !!!

no

you can if have the analytical/logical mind

you don’t

anyone kicking a synthetic track equivalent of < < 35.9 in a < < 3’34.9 is consistent with 3’24

utterly clueless

numerous sources have stated 11.6, worth with 1.015++/lap for chewed-up dirt after 10k earlier, on IMO on ’70s synthetic :

< < 11.4 !!!

the alleged owner of the dvd says original vid has running clock on screen, unlike oslo-’79 or fienze-’81 !, so he can estimate that 100

utter nonsense

i stated 1’39.9 on a ’70s synthetic for his peak ’67 shape

i applied logic to his runs

that is a 1’39.9 off “pure” 1500 training

i cannot even contemplate what he couda run for it if he actually trained for 800 in ‘67, with much more speed training & lessening the mileage !!!

for your ineptitude, let’s start with Ryun's 800 shape in '67 on a '70s synthetic, if he had actually trained for 800 :

< < 1’39.9

You keep peddling this twaddle.

The David Epstein research was directly comparing the 'soft cinders' of Bannister's run in 54 with modern 'synthetic tracks of today'.

He doesn't talk about '70's synthetics' or 80's but tracks of today. The top synthetic tracks of today are faster than those from the 70's, something that all top athletes, commentators and statisticians accept. You are deluded when you claim this is not the case.

The cinders Ryun ran on in a top international arena on a warm day in California would have been harder and more compact than those Bannister ran on a cool spring day on a college track in England.

The superiority of the the track in the LA Coliseum is backed up by Cordner Nelson, who was there, when he wrote in T&FN, "the track had been resurfaced and it seemed fast." So it was in pristine condition.

Epstein, who is one person who has carried out such research, concludes that the cinder tracks lost 1.5% energy return compared to modern day synthetics (not 70's synthetics). For a 3:33.1 HT 1500m race that works out at 0.84sec per lap. So where you suddenly get 1.015sec per lap is nonsense.

So, one set of research would suggest that Ryun's 3:33.1 (more like 3:33.3 FAT) would be equivalent to a 3:29.95 on 'modern synthetic'. That's a rather sweeping generalisation. There is ambiguity there on several levels. The focus of the point he was making was comparing Bannister's run in 1954 on soft cinders with modern (i.e. 2013) tracks. No mention of the exact conditions of cinders tested, no mention of Ryun's performance, and no mention of which type of synthetic tracks he was using in his experimentation. Was it Mondo, first generation 70's synthetic, an internationally used track?

So a 3:29.95 is an estimate, and should be seen as an absolute best scenario without specific data on which specific tracks were tested. Most observers would consider the latest mondo synthetic tracks to be about a second faster over a mile than the first generation ones of the 70's and 80's. To keep claiming that track surfaces are the same now as in the 70's is delusional. Ryun's run was worth around 3:30, and there is nothing that can bring that down to 3:24.

The other myth you maintain is that it was 95F. It doesn't matter if one person recollects that the thermometer had it on the track. The historical statistical data for LA on July 8th 1967 has the max temp as 71F, which is perfect for middle distance races, as you have stated yourself on numerous threads. In a court of law the official stats would be the one that's believed, not an anecdote from almost 50 years ago. One faulty thermometer in direct sunlight in the bowels of the stadium may well have read 95F, but the air temp Ryun ran in for 3.5 minutes could only have been a max of 71F. There is no way in the world that the temp in one stadium could read 24F higher than official recorded data.

http://farmersalmanac.com/weather-history/90002/1967/07/08/

http://www.almanac.com/weather/history/CA/Los%20Angeles/1967-07-08

I would add that temp in a 3 and a half minute race has a negligible effect on time anyway, whether it was 55F or 95F. A 10000m in 95F yes, but not a 1500m.

You've been caught out with exaggerating weather conditions before, e.g Rudisha's run in London, which I seem to remember you claimed it was in the high 80's. There were people there and there are official statistics that prove otherwise.

In terms of extra distance run, we see Ryun wide on the second bend for about 30m. There is no film of where he had been on the previous 70m + of that bend. He could just as easily have been on the inside of lane 1 up to that point. Visual evidence shows he runs 1.5m extra at most, which is about 0.2, which basically cancels out the 0.2 differential between hand time and FAT. Of course he could have run extra distance elsewhere in the race, but we can only go on the edited film we have.

So statistical evidence shows the temp was 71 F, visual evidence shows 1.5m extra run and vague scientific evidence suggests his run was worth 3:29.95 based on 1.5% energy lost.

So where do you get the extra 6 seconds from to ludicrously claim it was worth 3:24 on a 70's synthetic track?

& you offer nonsense...

nonsense

learn to think

the '54 track very likely doesn't exist today, so no experts can compare that to modern synthetic

he says

"how much slower to synthetic & the consensus was 1.5%"

that means to anyone not clueless, an easily available current dirt track in pristine condition v synthetic, which normally means locally available synthetic as i doubt they got acess to diamond league/olympic tracks

that means any readily available synthetic tracks, usually university ones as that is where experts reside

diamond league/olympic tracks are NOT readily available

nonsense

no commentators or statisticians woud have a clue as they don't do elite running

the only comparison woud be for an elite '70s guy running in same shape ~ 40y later !

utter nonsense on their opinions as time-travel doesn't exist

what we have is the iaaf rules stating potential energy which is translatable to kinetic energy CANNOT be more than 65%, which means this drivel about faster tracks is nonsense as that breaks iaaf rules which have been in place for decades

you have offered nonsense

nonsense

compacting woud be same from any efficient groundsman with a rake & roller

temperature does not affect silicone based material in a mere 40F range

every effort was made to get bannister to run his sub-4 & that means as ideal preparation for that meet, same as Ryun

a journo who didn't run on it or other tracks to compare

how clueless are you ???

"pristine" means for 1st run of meet when not been chewed up by preceding races

do you have no clue about the scientific method ???

have you never heard of the "control" comparator ???

Ryun ran probably at end of meet as that was highlight of whole meet & they don't put the highlight on as 1st race but late on, usually last as in Dream mile

no

it means which synthetics were readily available to experts which indicates university tracks for both synthetic & dirt NOT diamond league/olympic tracks

this is immaterial as iaaf have limited energy return to 65% for decades

clueless

that is for "pristine" track which has not been run on, not the chewed up rubbish Ryun usually ran on at end of meets

i put in 1.015 in 1 mention which to anyone clueless is a ratio

the 1.015s/lap was typo but pretty damn consistent with usually offered 1s/lap for the chewed up rubbish Ryun got to run on

eh ??

what other experts who have carried out research & come up with consensus of 1.5% for assumed pristine, 1st-race-of-meet dirt can you offer to refute this ???

i woud go much more with 1s/lap for that chewed up rubbish, making his 3'33.1 -> 3'29.3 on any synthetic as per iaaf mandate

that is a 3'29.3 in 95F !!!, off a total jog to 300m, wide running 300 - 400, just stalking Keino until 1200 & only serious effort of race in last 300 where he took 4s out of keino !!!

what is this nonsense ?

1.015 conversion or more like 1s/lap for rubbish Ryun usually ended up running on mid-late meet

no

epstein's statement is trivial to infer

you are too inept to even do basic inference ?

clueless

anyone with discernment woud realise he meant what dirt & synthetic tracks experts had to go on & that means local tracks which doesn't affect synthetic anyone as per iaaf 65% mandate

do you have any clue about physics

this shows you are totally clueless about scientific method

can you not find a neurone to understand "control" means that dirt track under consideration has to be in "perfect" condition with no race run on until experiment ???

how clueless are you ???

he didn't mention elliot or snell or keino or jazy or ron !!??

he talked about the only guy anyone wouda likely heard of - bannister

it is immaterial

iaaf mandates 65% energy return as limit

can't you grasp physics ???

nonsense consideration

see iaaf mandate

if you want anecdotal : ludicrous claims zurich track of '14 was "fastest ever" & we saw utter rubbish run on it this year

utter nonsense

it was more like 3'29.3 in 95F !!! off a total jog to 300m, wide running 300 - 400, just stalking Keino until 1200 & only serious effort of race in last 300 where he took 4s out of keino !!!

what is this nonsense ???

i am observer who has seen track as grown-up from '70s to today

to offer "oberver" argument is innane

i am NOT an elite athlete who was in same shape in '70s as in '13 which is only viable comparison

as no one has time-travel machines around to take them from '70s to '10s, therefore anyone claiming '10 tracks are faster than '70 is talking nonsense

the only factor therefore is iaaf rules of 65% limit

no

it is clueless posters who believe manufacturers nonsense about "faster tracks" when in order to do so they have to break the laws of physics & beat 65% on the standard test which is so simple & irrefutable :

drop a metal ball from 1m & if it bounces up more than 65cm, it is illegal

there is no way around this

from there, if you can't understand basic physics that this potential energy is translated into kinetic energy, then i can't help you

utter total drivel

look at his splits for initial 400 :

16.0 - 4'00 pace !!!

15.8 - 3'57 pace !!!

14.7 - 3'40 pace !!

14.0 - 3'30 pace

get a damn clue

he threw away 2s just from that jog to 300 !!!

that's not including flattening out the further uneveness in race from physics

& to your next question, the above 2s loss in initial 300 is not amenable to my physics flattening-pace formula, this is not formula friendly but from vast experience

the formula i use is accurate for only fast races with no unenforced slowing

you have to add on time thrown away by unenforced slowing to my physics formula

that gives Ryun a time of 3'27.3 on synthetic without evening out the whole race, the extra ~ 3m run by him wide 300 - 400, the slowing by Keino for final kick or crushing 95F !!!

the conclusion from this is that Ryun's run that day on a '70s synthetic at 70F track-side, paced evenly to bell was

~ 3'24.2

nonsense

utter drivel

there wouda been 10,000s of people in stadium

not 1 has ever disputed 95F

clueless

can't you even think ???

ever heard of reflected heat ???

now learn to think :

stadia reflect heat, concentrating it like a magnifying mirror onto focus, which is the track, which can heat up 70+ into 90++

Ryun said it was 95F on stadium screen

it is for a track-side 70F, NOT a track-side 95F

utter nonsense

no one forgets the circumstances of smashing the 1500WR by 2.5s !!!

in a court of law, the actual track-side temperature woud be used NOT weather-station temperature

if track-side temperature was given as 95F, you have to disprove this with other track-side recordings

a weather-station woud never count as sole arbritrator of track-side temperature

utterly ludicrous suggestion

utter drivel

there were 10,000s of spectators & i have never heard of 1 who has said it was not the 95F that Ryun has claimed

you post drivel about the track-side thermometer

were you there to measure it ???

give us your reading in the stadium ???

utter nonsense

he said it was 95F & the concentrating effect of a curved stadium can push it up hugely

the oz open tennis has heat policy :

go fetch the weather-station temperature for this year's oz open when the heat policy was used

was it 104F at the weather station ???

nonsense

it can with a stadium concentrating heat like a concave mirror onto the track

utter nonsense

upto 100F is just about fine for 200m or under

any longer & it will wreck times

by 800m the the track-side temperature shoud be no more than ~ 70F for optimal performance

nonsense

anything above 200m in 95F will be progressively ruined

- no more than 85F for a 400 IMO

- no more than 75F for a 800 IMO

- no more than 70F for a 1500 IMO

by now the curve shoud start to asymptote, so by 10k the trackside shoud be no more than 65F IMO

nonsense

official temperature given for record is 78.8F

the likely track-side temperature was likely lot higher

out in lane 2

last we saw was him was lane 1 on 1st ~ 100

if he had stayed there, until 30 - 40m out, then suddenly accelerated, that wouda been a ruinous loss of energy, as worse or worser than running wide in lane 2 at even pace !!!

race reports & his own comments state that he just was intent on following Keino & Keino made his move from 300 from start & can be seen also wide & Keino never got lead on 1st lap

bailey lead at 400 & that means Keino & therefore Ryun had to make the run out wide as the 3 white guys behind bailey do not change position or cadence from 100m mark to latter part of 1st lap on conflation of start/latter part of 1st lap

how inept are you you can't analyse a vid ???

which woud mean a ruinous loss of energy to accelerate past the 3 white guys behind bailey, as worse or worser than running whole bend wide in lane 2 at even pace !!!

utter nonsense

he either ran ~ 3m extra for whole bend or in unlikely case wildly accelerated for ~ 30m of bend into lane 2, costing as much or more likely more energy than running whole of bend in lane 2

learn to analyse

no

it is ~ 0.4+

nonsense

it is generally quoted as 0.14s for races over 400m

in addition 1 clocking had it as 3'33.0, other 2 at 3'33.1

which offers potential to come off 3'24.2 on '70s synthetic

i don't ask it because full race is not available

nonsense

Ryun said it was 95F as link above to heat death shows what can happen in stadiums from reflecting/concentrating heat onto track like a concave mirror

nonsense

more like 3m from actual 3m out wide in lane 2 for whole bend at even pace or equivalent from ruinous acceleration in 30 - 40m in lane 2 to chase Keino

utter nonsense

it is 3'29.95 for a pristine dirt track

Ryun didn't run on pristine dirt

he ran on 1 offering more like 1s/lap or worse

1s/lap is round number

he also had huge caveats for that as shown above/below

clueless

try :

3'33.1 with

- 3'31.1 : 2s lost on initial 300m from jogging

- 3'30.0 : 1+s lost from physics evenning-out which can't account for unenforced slow runs on laps or part-laps

- < 3'29.0 : from no serious effort in race apart from 100m sprint to chase Keino on 1st lap & blasting last 300 when passing Keino, taking 4s out of Keino who even dipped at the line !!!

he ran ~ 800m "unenforced" slow running extra from 400 - 1200, as he just stalked Keino & utterly destroyed him in last 300 showing he had huge energy reserves left at 1200

- < < 3'28.0 : from appalling 95F track temperature compared to ideal 70F

- 3'24.25 for applying 1.0s/lap for significantly run-on dirt & i'm not being generous

Ryun on '70s synthetic with some serious ungenerousity :

3'24.25

ventolin^3 wrote:

try :

3'33.1 with

- 3'31.1 : 2s lost on initial 300m from jogging

- 3'30.0 : 1+s lost from physics evenning-out which can't account for unenforced slow runs on laps or part-laps

- < 3'29.0 : from no serious effort in race apart from 100m sprint to chase Keino on 1st lap & blasting last 300 when passing Keino, taking 4s out of Keino who even dipped at the line !!!

he ran ~ 800m "unenforced" slow running extra from 400 - 1200, as he just stalked Keino & utterly destroyed him in last 300 showing he had huge energy reserves left at 1200

- < < 3'28.0 : from appalling 95F track temperature compared to ideal 70F

- 3'24.25 for applying 1.0s/lap for significantly run-on dirt & i'm not being generous

Ryun on '70s synthetic with some serious ungenerousity :

3'24.25

Wow! What a lot of hot air you expel.

I have never seen so many excuses given for 1 performance. Its beyond common sense that you even try justifying slashing 9 secs off his time.

2 questions.

1. Have you spoken to all the 10000 in the crowd who you claim saw temperature?

2. Why did Pathe News claim it was 'in the 80's' in the stadium? Surely that means there were at least a group of journalists and cameramen who never saw the temperature reading 95F?

You also said that 'Ryun probably ran at end of meet'. Are you saying that you don't know that for sure? Your whole argument pretty much falls apart with that one word, probably.

Interesting question. At their best, their 1500m/mile abilities were probably pretty similar with El G having potential of about 3:29 I would guess. Webb's 3:30/3:46 were clean from what I believe, so in a rabbited race, El G has the definite edge. However, Webb's final sprint kick in 2007 was unmatched and FAR superior to anything from El G. In any race with a final time of 3:30high or slower, Webb wins in my opinion, with the possible exception being one like Athens 2004 when the big boys ran 1:46 for their final 800m.

Of course this whole thread is based on the premise that El G was doped to the gills and Webb was more or less clean.

Lagat v guerrouj both on EPO

No other drugs allowed

Would lagat edge guerrouj in the rematch?

eh ?

from your response, you clearly can't think

clueless

mine is rational, logical analysis

the end conclusion is a ~ 9s improvement if his WR had been run on '70s synthetic on temperate day with ideal pacing/drafting to bell

it is nonsense you think 9s is significant

what law of nature sets the limit to come off & what is that limit ???

ron clarke reckoned his massive 27'39WR wouda been < 27 if run on synthetic track with assumed good pacing

that's 40s claimed improvement for 10k which translates roughly to 6s over 1500

he even states that the 10k wr shouda been ~ 26'40 in '84 at interview

i assume he believed at time of interview he himself woudn't have been far off that clocking himself giving some context to that < 27 for himself

that is 9s over 1500

who says only 10,000 ??

i'd imagine much more as that is the LA coliseum which is a huge stadium

we can await any spectator who was there that day to post

until then, i'll go with main participant of meet :

Ryun who said it was 95F on stadium clock

he claims : "temperature up in the '80s in colisuem stadium"

that already makes a nonsense of 71F day-time maximum quoted for day

that 80s temperature does not state the exact temperature for time of race

that likely was quote from start of meet which probably ran for a few hours & heated up as day wore on

& we can await them to post their memories

until then, we have a studio guy in london claiming "in the 80s" whilst we have the main man saying he looked up at stadium clock & seeing it read 95F

it's pretty damn obvious Ryun knew what difference between 80s & 95F was

to mention the temperature means he knew it was debilitating

clueless

most definitely it woud not have been at start of meet

this was heavyweight championship of the world between Ryun & Keino

the heavyweight championship of the world is never 1st bout on the programme but the last

virtually certain this was last individual race of meet with maybe a relay as last event

someone can post the programme to confirm

experiencedwithsht wrote:

El G was much better, consistent year after year performances. He had naturally high blood count living in altitude and long efficient legs.

El G grew up in a coastal fishing town with little altitude.