Hoka (or similar shoe) with Best Energy Return

There's action and reaction and no way around this. Ron Daws once compared running in very soft shoes to trying to dribble a basketball on a mattress. Cushioning in a shoe absorbs energy. A light, cushioned, shoe like the Clifton will give better performance by virtue of being lighter but energy return is still diminished by all the cushion. As your shoe gets more firm your energy return increases so essentially you're looking for the firmest shoe you can tolerate if maximizing energy return is your goal and you need to balance that desire out with your preference for cushioning.

PS,

I'm not sure about this, but I believe the whole "Response" thing that adidas does attempts to reconcile this dilemma by putting some sort of technology in their shoes which increases energy return, something like springs or shoch absorbers, while maintaining cushioning. I'm not positive about this, adidas has moved far beyond my price limits but if I were in your place and money was no object that might be where I'd start looking.

I came here to post "what's the best snake oil i can buy?" but then i read your post. Hope you find something that works! Maybe just look for some lower impact surfaces to run on?

The Clifton 2 (not sure if you have the 1 or 2) is more firm...but it weighs about half an ounce more and fits a bit more narrow than the Clifton 1. Could be an option. Then there's the Huaka which is for sure more responsive and has a lot of cushion (in more stiff RMAT midsole material). Different feel. 2mm offset compared to 5mm of the Clifton. Some people that really like the Clifton don't like the Huaka. It also weighs about 1oz more than the Clifton 1. If weight is not quite as much of an issue the Bondi 4 might be a good option as a high mileage trainer as well. The new Tracer/Clayton/Rocket flats coming out (I've only tested a Tracer prototype) are very responsive...feel a lot more firm of a "pop" off the ground and are in the 6-7oz range.

HokaHelp wrote:

I like an uber cushioned shoe because I'm a Masters runner and feel it helps my joints and aids in recovery. However, I've been running in the Hoka Clifton and it just seems too soft. I feel like it sucks all the energy out of my stride and almost feel like I have to work harder to maintain pace, which sort of negates the benefits of the cushioning. Is there a Hoka model out there that has similar cushioning to the Clifton but better energy return. Perhaps I should look at a different brand like one of the Adidas Boost shoes. FWIW, I'm fairly light (130lbs) and need a neutral shoe.

"John" wrote:

I came here to post "what's the best snake oil i can buy?" but then i read your post. Hope you find something that works! Maybe just look for some lower impact surfaces to run on?

If you have nothing of value to add, and Obviously you don't, why do you even bother posting?

Some of us older guys are having success wearing the Hokas that allow us to run more but are running into issues like the OP so we come here to ask about it. We've seen most of the complaints of people who think they are a gimmick, so please save your next rebuttal.

OP, I'm running into the same thing with the Cliftons so I use them mostly for recovery and easy runs, then for longer runs or anything faster I'm wearing Adidas Supernovas. You notice they are a firmer ride immediately but the material they use does have some bounce to it. It's been a good rotation for me, the legs recover well and I'm putting more miles in than before I used the Cliftons.

The Cliftons feel great but it seems like around the 7 mile mark of a run it feels like I'm on sand, which sounds like the same symptom you are. Seems a lot of the shoe companies are using "energy return" or something in their materials so maybe it's just a matter of finding what suits you.

Let us know if you find anything that works.

RMAT=energy return=Huaka and Conquest. Case closed. Clifton has very little energy return.

I can't resist posting on this thread since I posted about the Huaka vs. the Clifton earlier this week. As I stated in that post, the Huaka is the best shoe I've ever run in for ride and responsiveness. It also has great cushion. It is the best of both worlds, cushion and energy return. I just wish the rubber parts of the outsole were a bit more durable like the Continental Rubber on the Adidas Boost line. I have the Adidas Supernova Glide 6 Boost, and they are great shoes. The Boost material is as advertised--it has great energy return. But believe it or not, the RMAT midsole of the Hoka Huaka is EVEN BETTER!

As for the Hoka Clifton, I really want to like it. I've done several runs in it, and each time it gives me great pain in one or both big toes about 3-4 miles into the run. The Cushion of the Clifton is mush. I can best compare it to running in sand. It sucks all the energy out of my stride and push-off. It's fantastic for running downhill because it absorbs all the road or trail shock and lets you really fly, but on level surfaces it's miserable, especially on soft surfaces. It MAKES you run on pavement because otherwise, you're sinking down even more with every foot strike on a soft surface. There are people who swear by the Clifton, but I can't understand why. I think it will make a good slow walking shoe, for those times when my wife talks me into going shopping at the mall and I have to stand around a lot on hard tiled surfaces waiting for her to try on clothes.

Now, Hoka-sponsored star runner Sage Canaday says that the Huaka is being phased out in the U.S., but it will still be available in Europe. I'm greatly disappointed to hear that, but Hoka will be coming out with some new models that may be good Huaka substitutes, including the Hoka Clayton, Tracer, and Carbon Rocket (a racing flat). Luckily I have two pair of Huakas, which I rotate with the Adidas Supernova Glide 6 and the Saucony Ride 6, both great shoes. If I were you, I'd try to grab the Huaka on sale. Later this year I expect that the Huaka will drop in price once the new models come online. We'll see. By the way, I'm also a masters runner (age 53).

Gee Shawn, thanks so much for summarizing the threads for us and saying the same thing you did in the other thread.

You are moving quickly toward Flagpole territory.

Sorry, Sage. I didn't read every post and then I saw yours after I had referred to your previous comments. It's nice that an outstanding runner AND Hoka-sponsored runner takes the time to comment here on LRC. Thanks.

Guy watching threads wrote:

Gee Shawn, thanks so much for summarizing the threads for us and saying the same thing you did in the other thread.

You are moving quickly toward Flagpole territory.

You're right. Whatever has been said before on this forum should never be said again. Everyone with a similar question to one that has been answered before should research all previous threads before asking their question. "Newbies" should be banned immediately for asking any question that YOU already know the answer to. And people who have nothing to add should STFU.

Thanks, everyone. I currently have the Clifton 1 and might look into a pair of the 2's since it sounds like they're a little firmer. Might also check out the Bondi and Conquest as well as the Adidas Supernova. I appreciate the recommendations, and if anyone has any more, please add.

HokaHelp wrote:

Thanks, everyone. I currently have the Clifton 1 and might look into a pair of the 2's since it sounds like they're a little firmer. Might also check out the Bondi and Conquest as well as the Adidas Supernova. I appreciate the recommendations, and if anyone has any more, please add.

You might want to try the New Balance Zante or Vazee Pace. Good luck!

I'd suggest that if you like the curved heel of the Hokas, try the Skechers GoRun line. The GoRun Ultra has more cushion, but less than the Hoka Clifton. The GoRun Ride 4 has a little less cushion. The GoRun (no second name) has even less. I can't handle the GoRun, but I'm currently running in the GoRun Ride 3. It's the same as the 4, except the upper is different.

I have the Clifton 2, but I haven't run in it enough to make a comparison, other than to notice that it has more cushion than the Skechers and it has the same type of rolling foot strike.

HokaHelp wrote:

Thanks, everyone. I currently have the Clifton 1 and might look into a pair of the 2's since it sounds like they're a little firmer. Might also check out the Bondi and Conquest as well as the Adidas Supernova. I appreciate the recommendations, and if anyone has any more, please add.

You really can't go wrong with the Adidas Supernova Glide with Boost. If you do buy the Clifton 2, let us know whether it's actually firmer than the mushy Clifton 1. Sage Canaday says it is a bit firmer, and he should know, but I'm wondering if it's responsive enough to waste $130 on the experiment. My suspicion is that the Clifton 2 is still a pretty mushy shoe, but I'd like to know your opinion if you try it. Today I ran another 10 miles in my Hoka Huakas. My all-time favorite shoe, with even better energy return than the Boost line. However, my Supernova Glide 6 Boost have twice the miles on them than the Huakas, and they are still really responsive. We'll see how the Huakas are in responsiveness with another 150 miles on them. Good luck.

Boost is the way to go: Cushiony but also responsive.

thanks for another useless post Shawn, only now you make sure you work in Sage's name to try and add credibility and also pander to him.

We all look forward to your next useless post.

Here we go wrote:

thanks for another useless post Shawn, only now you make sure you work in Sage's name to try and add credibility and also pander to him.

We all look forward to your next useless post.

The most useless of posts are the ones where you add nothing to the discussion, while commenting on the uselessness of other people's posts.

Shawn H wrote:

Here we go wrote:

thanks for another useless post Shawn, only now you make sure you work in Sage's name to try and add credibility and also pander to him.

We all look forward to your next useless post.

The most useless of posts are the ones where you add nothing to the discussion, while commenting on the uselessness of other people's posts.

Well, you certainly just proved that.

Shawn H is awesome.