Grant Fisher: Is he the 4th greatest Amerian HSer all-time?

1. Jim Ryun

2. Gerry Lindgren

3. Dathan Ritzenhein

4. Alan Webb

5. Lukas Verzbicas

6. Grant Fisher

7. Craig Virgin

8. German Fernandez

9. Rudy Chapa

10. Steve Prefontaine

Fernandez would likely have been number one had he not been a full year ahead in school. His freshman OSU season should have been his senior year of high school. Insane talent.

I think people are not placing enough emphasis on the fact that Fisher DESTROYED a great field at FL this year. You can't just look at his winning time - XC times aren't that meaningful. However, the margin of victory (10+ seconds, all achieved in the last 800m) is incredible given the strength of the field, which was, objectively, extremely strong given the number of sub 9 guys (even from the prior summer), and in particular the number 8:4x's and 4:0xs the field went on to achieve in 2015.

gf fan wrote:

I think people are not placing enough emphasis on the fact that Fisher DESTROYED a great field at FL this year. You can't just look at his winning time - XC times aren't that meaningful. However, the margin of victory (10+ seconds, all achieved in the last 800m) is incredible given the strength of the field, which was, objectively, extremely strong given the number of sub 9 guys (even from the prior summer), and in particular the number 8:4x's and 4:0xs the field went on to achieve in 2015.

That being said, I would still put Ryun, Lindgren, Webb and Verzbicas ahead of him, and maybe Ritz. No one else has a better claim though when taking into account big wins, fast times and consistency.

Without reading all 8 pages, I'll say let's see what he does in the 2 mile. As he's been so dominant in XC, and he's so good in the mile, he could be primed to break LV's 2 mile record. It's been a long season, and weather and pacing has to work out, but he should definitely go for it!

LV's heart was always in the tri, not track, so I'm rooting for Grant to wipe him from the books!

Yeah, I'd love to see Fisher break LV's 2-mile record. I doubt it'll happen, but it's possible for a sub-4 kid. I can't believe how long Jeff Nelson's record stood on the books. I don't know much about him, but he was obviously a huge talent. I always wanted Ritz to get that record, or, at the very least, the 5,000M record, which he was painfully close to. Ritz was the second-coming of Lindgren, just as Webb was the second-coming of Ryun. HS running hadn't seen a better year since the '60s. But you can't deny the DEPTH of prep running right now is staggering. It's insane to see so many sub-9s and sub-4:10s. Those are damn hard times to run. I'm hoping Andrew Hunter from my alma matter can snag some records next year!

Rudy Chapa's 10,000M record is underrated. I wish more people would race that distance in HS. I personally would've been better at that in HS and the 5,000M than the 16/32, as i was a big slow-twitch type who couldn't keep up at all in the 8/16.

Definitive HS Rankings wrote:

1. Jim Ryun

2. Gerry Lindgren

3. Dathan Ritzenhein

4. Alan Webb

5. Lukas Verzbicas

6. Grant Fisher

7. Craig Virgin

8. German Fernandez

9. Rudy Chapa

10. Steve Prefontaine

Fernandez would likely have been number one had he not been a full year ahead in school. His freshman OSU season should have been his senior year of high school. Insane talent.

Yup, perfect

Skeetero wrote:

Definitive HS Rankings wrote:

1. Jim Ryun

2. Gerry Lindgren

3. Dathan Ritzenhein

4. Alan Webb

5. Lukas Verzbicas

6. Grant Fisher

7. Craig Virgin

8. German Fernandez

9. Rudy Chapa

10. Steve Prefontaine

Fernandez would likely have been number one had he not been a full year ahead in school. His freshman OSU season should have been his senior year of high school. Insane talent.

Yup, perfect

I agree with this as well. I believe the ranking is very fair. I also like that Rudy Chapa and Pre are on here. They shouldn't be overlooked.

It's a really big shame that Ostberg isn't running the 2 mile at Brooks PR. I think his omission really brings down the chance of Fisher going for the record or getting a fast time. He's a big grinder and he made the Loucks 3200 possible. If Robert Brandt of Loyola is in the race, then he's the closest thing to Ostberg's grind level. Brandt has gone sub 9 like 7 times this season and doesn't really have a kick. But regardless, Fisher has to be comfortable with striking out on his own with 800 or 600 left if he wants to get a really fast time. And i'm not sure he'll try.

Definitive HS Rankings wrote:

1. Jim Ryun

2. Gerry Lindgren

3. Dathan Ritzenhein

4. Alan Webb

5. Lukas Verzbicas

6. Grant Fisher

7. Craig Virgin

8. German Fernandez

9. Rudy Chapa

10. Steve Prefontaine

Fernandez would likely have been number one had he not been a full year ahead in school. His freshman OSU season should have been his senior year of high school. Insane talent.

Very nice list. Ryun at 1 & Lindgren at 2 is the general consensus. I am also seeing a lot of agreement in regards to my entire proposed top 8 (albeit in different orders).

It seems that LRC has spoken: Ryan is the best ever and Lindgren is next. After that Webb, Fisher, LV, Ritz, Virgin, and German round out the top 8 (in no particular order). The final two spots in the top 10 are hard to pin down as there are many great options (Pre, Chapa, Davis, Kimball, Nelson, Liquori, etc).

Sounds about right to me. I can't wait to see what Grant does this weekend.

Ummmm, have you ever seen Drew Hunter race? If anyone can grind out a hard pace it's him. And I don't think that he is going to sit around and just let Grant jog the first 7.5 laps and then kick it in. Not a chance.

Ostberg wasn't omitted; he has a stress fracture.

It's amusing to me that this thread inspired a flotrack article.

Agreed with your consensus, and that guy's "definitive list" is actually quite definitive. Maybe I'm biased towards long distance versus mid, but hell, I'd almost put Lindgren as tied in my head, and Webb and Ritz tied for #2. But I just like how that looks, haha.

Can't wait to see what Grant can do this weekend, too. Hope Andrew Hunter gets a win, as I think he's an almost equal talent, and I love to see my northern VA hometown represented!

I need to read this Flotrack article mentioned below. I'd love to see a comparable (and updated, what with all the crazy girls lately) list for HS girls, and college runners as well, since I know so little of collegiate distance running history.

very interesting wrote:

Interesting take on HS runners (Grant Fisher), social media and what that means for the future of Track and Field.

If Fisher is the current King of HS Track and Field from a social media standpoint, I would say the Queen was Mary Cain. She too as done much for the future of track by being at the forefront of HS girls (primarily) minds. Looking forward to Mary Cain racing for a long time. I also look forward to the wave of other young HS runners on the heels Grant Fisher and Mary Cain that through social media will boost the status of Track and Field like no other era has. Fisher and Cain were the pioneers.

I beg to disagree. G Fernandez and J Hasay were the pioneers. Social media was in its infancy back then, but Internet and live feeds were pretty mainstream.

Regardless, I hope this spurs development of fresh talent, similar to LBJ, Kobe, grant hill, MJ following in Magic's and Bird's wake

Interestingly enough, an article produced by ESPN about 10 years ago listed Jim Ryun as the greatest high school athlete of all time, across all sports.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/highschool.html

It is interesting. Look what you and I are doing now... talking about HS runners when we surely have more productive things to do. But that is what drives social media isn't it? Being able to hear, say, do, and communicate things rapidly and like never before. It is my observation that in the sport of Track and Field the HS connectivity and following is greater than that of the NCAA following and the pros!

I did say "current King of HS Track and Field from a social media standpoint"

Nevertheless, and since you bring it up, the difference in the last few years (from when Fernandez and Hasay were running) with respect to social media, running websites, and the connectivity to our sport is quite different. Actually far-and-away different and Fisher and Cain take the cake with respect to all that is on the social media airwaves and over anyone else that has come before them from a HS standpoint. In the future they too will be surpassed due to the rapidness of change that technology brings and medias' need to find the next heroes to exploit. But up to now, Fisher and Cain are the King and Queen of HS running social media.

Even if we are excluding pure 800 meter guys I think George Kersh should be on there. HSR in the 800 (at the time, still #2), and he was a Footlocker XC finalist.

What do you guys think now that he had been beaten by Andrew Hunter? I believe this takes him down a few spots

Resume discussion wrote:

What do you guys think now that he had been beaten by Andrew Hunter? I believe this takes him down a few spots

My rankings have not changed.

After today's events

1. Ryun

2. Lindgren

3. Webb

4. Ritz

5. Verzbicas

6. Virgin

7. Fisher

8. Fernandez

9. Chapa

10. Pre

11. Rupp

12. Ches

13. Nelson

14. Hulst

15. Kimball

I think this is a fair list. The Ritz/Webb conversation will never be resolved, but I think Webb's was slightly more impressive. Seems like the consensus is that Verzbicas is #5 across most of these lists. I'd say that Fernandez and Virgin are somewhat interchangeable here, but it's fair to all to put Fisher between them. Fisher was impressive today, but he lost to a junior who probably won't end up on this list. As good as he could end up being, it's literally impossible for Hunter to win two Foot Locker titles. The last three guys on this list are from the same era and could be moved around.