Over 40, don't want to run marathons unless under 3-hours would be really easy.

outsiderunner wrote:

There is excellent discussion here, but I think I agree most with William F. I find no problem in training for the 5k and 10k...and even the half. As soon as I bumped things up (heading into a marathon), the surprise injury surprised me.

Also, I agree that the time aspect is significant, especially the 2:59:xx mark. The way look at it is: why would I risk so much, train so hard (in all conditions), and risk so much in the race itself in order to finish 3:xx:xx? For me, the reward must be clearly worth the risk.

Agreed. I don't see the point of running a marathon if I don't think I can break 3. I have time standards for most distances but less stringent as you can easily jump in a 5K without beating your body up.

It might change someday and I can go out and jog a marathon and not care about my time. Not there yet.

Citizen Runner wrote:

1) Most of use are running for our own amusement. If you aren't interested in the marathon, don't do it.

2) If any race is "really easy", you probably missed an opportunity to run a better time. That may or may not bother you.

+1. I don't think there is anything to add.

Marathons aren't really healthy. The body isn't designed to fuel past 18 miles without help. Marathon training is healthy, but doing the actual thing is high risk. If you do the correct training, though, you'll finish many runs where you feel like you could have kept running to make it a marathon. Once you reach that point doing a marathon and taking a few weeks to recover isn't a big deal. If you enjoy putting a lot on the line, then go for a marathon. If you enjoy racing frequently, then avoid it and stick to the weekend racing circuit.

I'm w/ Babble. I'm over 40 (43) & far from an easy sub-3. I'm a 4-hour plus guy and enjoy everything about the sport as i did when I was once running quicker, competition times. I'm more fit than most guys 15-20 years my younger. The long runs take longer, but it's my sanctuary.

Xfit_guy_the_real_1 wrote:

I mean, look at those guys, SCRAWNY like a war survivor and WEAK. I mean, whom are you guys fooling? You wanna be strong, like a CrossFit athlete. Put in the work, eat up and get BUFF.

Nope,you're wrong, that's a gross generalization. Scrawny guys happen to be attracted to marathon so that's why you see a lot. I've got a friend whose done more than 150 thons, 50 under 3 hrs and he weighs about 185 on 6'1". He broke 3 hrs into his 50s. Grew up on a farm, tough as nails, not at all scrawny. His son is just as tall but skinnier and runs 1 48 800m. There's some pretty big strong ironman guys as well.

If you run year round high mileage (couple wks off for rest, and every 3rd or 4th week cut back 30%), and never drop weekly long run below 18-20m, your step up to marathon will be easy and so will recovery. I've done XC races 2 wks after a marathon with only mild discomfort.

Here's main reason why to do marathon: It made my 10ks better. After marathon recovery i felt super strong for 10k and half training as well as XC racing. I only run one marathon a year though, ran 2:50 into late 40s, and low 37min 10k into early 50s.

All that being said, if you can't get your 10k time comfortably below 39min, sorry, you'll never do a sub 3.

This is why wrote:

All that being said, if you can't get your 10k time comfortably below 39min, sorry, you'll never do a sub 3.

It's already below 39min, but not 35-36 where I want it.

Good posts. Looks like it is possible. Thanks

Very well said...I am 46 and I run marathons in the 2h40' +-3' bracket.I love the lifestyle and being "bound" to an healthier life: avoiding crap food or getting drunk at regular basis. It's a good excuse to take care of myself at a age where there are more important responsibilities to take care of.I have now a basic fitness that I don't even need to specifically train or do a super peaking for a marathon, basically I could run once a month without any problem (usually I recover the soreness in 2 days). I found those 10k races way too boring and no more motivating.This said, I also said to myself that the say I start running slower then 3h I will stop. I really don't know how people over 4h can do, staying around for that long . My long runs are max 2h15'-20' and that is enough...If I had to run around for 3h30' or so for a 20miler i would give up.

Leon wrote:

I like the marathon life style: the year round mileage, the long runs in all kinds of weather, not being house bound by the winter, feeling good from the fitness, avoiding the sudden injuries from training much harder for shorter races esp. the track work, planning the races including the travel, reading and researching the exercise physiology and trends in training theory, watching world class races on the computer on Sunday mornings and much more.

I could not agree more. Who would even have the time for a 3hr 30min training run?

...and the boredom, especially at that slow pace. Ugh. That is why I did not last long with cycling. Imagine pedaling for 5-6 hours? How do they do it?

I used to think gyms were boring, but now I understand why those people do what they do--they are done in about an hour or so, and there are no injuries. Yes, no injuries. In my on/off stints with weighlifting years ago, I did not have even a single injury, not the slightest hint of this or that being hurt.

outsiderunner wrote:

...and the boredom, especially at that slow pace. Ugh. That is why I did not last long with cycling. Imagine pedaling for 5-6 hours? How do they do it?

I used to think gyms were boring, but now I understand why those people do what they do--they are done in about an hour or so, and there are no injuries. Yes, no injuries. In my on/off stints with weighlifting years ago, I did not have even a single injury, not the slightest hint of this or that being hurt.

Max the long runs, as I have, to 2 - 2.5 hrs and just do more of them.

It's a Lydiard-esque philosophy; run the miles at a vigorous, high aerobic effort that keeps it interesting and you will get almost all of what you need even for some shorter races. It's almost all the gain with much less risk and far less down time for injures. At 56, it takes weeks and weeks to heal from tweaks that would heal in about one week 20 yrs ago.

At 56, it takes weeks and weeks to heal from tweaks that would heal in about one week 20 yrs ago.

How true this is. I am 46 and I find the same thing. A "little" injury takes FOREVER to heal. As I have suggested above, what is particularly frustrating is that with weightlifting, there were no injuries whatsoever. This whole "wait for it to heal" routine is entirely new to me. And then, if one is not careful and patient enough (read months and months), then one is just treated to another injury...or two.

Thanks for the advice. This is one of the best LR threads I have seen. I would not have had the guts to raise the issue presented by the OP. Bravo to you!

outsiderunner wrote:

At 56, it takes weeks and weeks to heal from tweaks that would heal in about one week 20 yrs ago.

How true this is. I am 46 and I find the same thing. A "little" injury takes FOREVER to heal. As I have suggested above, what is particularly frustrating is that with weightlifting, there were no injuries whatsoever. This whole "wait for it to heal" routine is entirely new to me. And then, if one is not careful and patient enough (read months and months), then one is just treated to another injury...or two.

Thanks for the advice. This is one of the best LR threads I have seen. I would not have had the guts to raise the issue presented by the OP. Bravo to you!

Forgot to mention one other aspect of the aging/running process;

pain is no longer a reliable indicator of the extent of an injury.

Simple soft, tissue tweaks in the last few years can hurt as bad as a major tears or pulls did a decade ago.

I've learned that taking time off often does nothing.

3-7 days off will often bring no improvement.

Running through the injury with walking spells if I feel gimpy seems to do the trick even though one day I'll feel like it's over for a year, only to find I'm better the next day. Last week I was sure that calf pain would put me on the stationary bike for a month and then was able to run an hour for 7 straight days with varying degrees of soreness.

Leon: I cannot believe how similar my experiences have been in the last couple of years. The "ring" of truth and similarity in your comments and descriptions is astounding. In short, I have experienced the same things.

Yes! a simple soft tissue tweak can linger for what seems to be FOREVER. Yes! a week off produces no improvement. Yes! there is a "back and forth" pattern and a puzzling, mysterious trajectory toward getting better. Things vary so much, and I have never felt such frustration.

I really am at a loss in regard to dealing with these injuries. Indeed, pain is not a reliable indicator, and that just keeps us grasping at straws.

I am glad you have posted--thanks. I thought I were the only one on this sinking ship known as "The Injury Riddle."

I forgot to add: things get really bad when even the stationary bike becomes an injury aggravator.

36 should get you 2:50, sub 2:50 if you run smart on flat course.

Rosa Mota never ran longer than 90 min long runs and she ran low 2:20s, but she ran them fast! So if you're sick of 2.5-3hr long runs you can try that. It was in some Toby Tanser book, Run with the Champions or something like that. i believe the Hansons group also did "short" long runs, but ran high mileage so you did them on tired legs.

I had a fantastic 2010 and early 2011, setting PRs from 5K to the half-marathon. Then a friend suggested we run a Fall marathon. I was 50 at the time.

After 6 months of intense training under a reputable coach I fell apart after 22 miles. I was burned out and couldn't get motivated to race for over a year.

I recovered in 2013 and set some big PRs but I was still carrying injuries from marathon training, which became chronic. They've stopped me from running, biking or weight training since early last year.

That's just my experience.

Randy Oldman wrote:

I had a fantastic 2010 and early 2011, setting PRs from 5K to the half-marathon. Then a friend suggested we run a Fall marathon. I was 50 at the time.

After 6 months of intense training under a reputable coach I fell apart after 22 miles. I was burned out and couldn't get motivated to race for over a year.

I recovered in 2013 and set some big PRs but I was still carrying injuries from marathon training, which became chronic. They've stopped me from running, biking or weight training since early last year.

That's just my experience.

similar thing happened to me- I had trouble running for 6-8 months after I bonked in a marathon but kept rattling on to the finish.

A marathon can put you on the ropes for an extended period of time - - physically and mentally. The odds of that happening are low, but a marathon is an extreme event and that should be part of your calculation.

Randy Oldman: Are you back running at all?