can I gain upper body muscle while running 60 mpw?

heres the thing.

. reps and weight are irrelevant. i can grow muscle with 20 lbs as long as you are stimulating the target muscle and if your nutrition is on point.

you would have to figure out your macros (protein,carbs,fats), calories needed to maintain lose and gain weight. and make sure you get a good amount of micro nutrients (veggies) and be in a surplus of calories. compound lifts should be a staple of your workouts and every other iso exercises are just accessory exercises that can be done at the end of your workouts whenever you feel like it.

the truth is being a distance runner and wanting to gain muscle is never going to happen. you may gain a little at the beginning after a few months but that will be noob muscle growth bc its a new body stimulus and muscles will be more shaped and visible.

Back to the OP,

Unfortunately, if you are a skinny ectomorph runner like me, then the answer is almost certainly not. I am 35 years old, 5'11" and 145 lb, and am slightly stronger than you (about 25% more in most of the lifts you mentioned). When healthy, I run 30-35 MPW, and usually level off around 40:00 10K fitness. I have consistently done strength training 2-3 days a week for years. Mainly in the gym, mixing up sets of 3 X 10, 5 X 5, or 10-8-6-4 increasing.

My body weight has never varied by more than 10 pounds either direction, and it's almost always due to running or the lack thereof. Due to various injuries I often miss weeks or months of running, and those are the only times that I can consistently get my bench press reps to body weight or higher (don't laugh - simple physics says that long arms make the motion much harder!). I also quickly gain 5-10 pounds of muscle mass.

For example, in December I was benching 4X6 at 135-145, and did a max set of 21 pull-ups, while weighing 148. In the past month I have just ramped my mileage back up over 30 MPW, and almost immediately I dropped back to 142 (my optimal running weight), and lost about 10% of my strength. And sure, I eat plenty of protein and vegetables, but when I'm running I can't help that my appetite shifts - I just crave grains!

For basic upper-body tone, I will say that I am a big fan of push-ups. Once you have some basic strength endurance, they are more of a core workout than lifting, so you can do them every day. I do at least one set of 30 after each run.

It depends on your running speed and your muscle base. I'm assuming it's distance runners base, so yes you can gain size. But if you were a football player or a bodybuilder you would lose tons of mass.

Well, assuming this is not a troll, you can gain muscle (and fat) running 180 mpw if you eat enough. What you need to do is find what your base caloric need is at your current mileage and up that about 10%.

Make sure you don't go crazy and eat a ridiculous amount more than that because then your gaining unnecessary fat even if your running that much (hence eating more than what you need to maintain weight at current mileage).

Basically unless yours on bodybuilding steroids you are limited on how much muscle you can build every week so it doesn't make sense to eat an insane amount more than 10% of what you need to maintain your weight.

As far as workouts go, your going to want to keep the reps LOW. I mean real low, like 6-8 reps per set, 5 sets. For each exercise your going to want to find out your max (1 rep) and judge what you could do for 6 reps. Every time you get over 8 reps you up the weight on the exercise.

As far as exercises go, don't use machines, those don't do much for building actual strength and muscle, the same goes for pull ups. Basically if your doing more than 8 reps your now working on the bodies metabolic processing, your no longer working for strength, your only making your muscles efficient.

Just a btw regarding frequency, each body section ie. chest, arms, abs should be done ONCE a week. Assuming your not on steroids that is.

Some basic exercises you can play around with and see what you like:

Barbell bicep curl

Dumbbell curl

Hammer dumbbell curl

Bench press

Dumbbell overhead triceps press

Triceps push-down

Dumbbell benchpress

Seated dumbbell press

Dumbbell front raise

Side lateral dumbbell raise

The reason for not doing high rep training and super sets for growth is, the only people that will be able to greatly benefit from it is people on steroid. This is simply because their bodies are able to repair that much damage because of the steroids.

So best of luck to you and make sure you keep a crazy high protein intake!

Definitely. I run 60 + per week, and I can easily put on some muscle mass.

It's not that difficult - and I'm certainly not genetically blessed. You need to do this:

1: EAT. I'd recommend 400 - 500 more than maintenance. You may also want to search for info on nutritional macros. Personally, I use a 50% carbs, 30% protein, and 20% fat composition. I also follow a strict plant-based diet, though this isn't needed to develop muscle (and may make it more difficult).

2: STRENGTH TRAIN. I follow a simple route for upper body: 100-150 pull-ups, 200 push-ups, and 100-150 dips. I do this 2 x per week. I'll also include some core in these workouts (e.g., 100 leg raises and 100 crunches).

Find runners with some mass (e.g., Dean K, Nick S), and look for info on their diets and routine. I think you'll find (1) and (2) are the common dimensions.

Xfit_guy_the_real_1 wrote:

Running and fitness are mutually exclusive. One or the other.

Your workout routine isn't that bad, except that you need to upgrade to men's weights instead of those pink dumbbells...

Here's my 3 step plan for you:

1. Stop running (except for sprints maybe once a week)

2. upgrade to men's weights (have you ever seen CrossFit barbells, those are freaking HUGE)

3. upgrade your diet - out with the grains, in with animal protein/fat, red meat

Good luck, brah.

Xfit_guy we all know you're a tiny 5'3 110lb goblin who runs 80 miles a week

Come on, why are you trolls so obvious? I call absolute BS on this. In all my years, I have known precisely zero runners who are both faster and stronger than me, and your "STRENGTH" routine is absolutely ridiculous.

200 push-ups? That's easy. If I don't have access to a gym, here are my favorite workouts:

160 in 15. Set a timer for 1:30, and do sets of 15 push-ups in various configurations (normal, side-to-side, elevated legs, arms askew, tricep dips, etc.).

210 Countdown. Do sets of 20, 19, 18, ...., 2, 1 push-ups. Finish within 20 minutes.

But 150 pull-ups is insane. Again, I am very "strong" (for a runner). My gym once had a contest as to how many pull-ups one could do in a day. The first day I did 90, as sets of 6 every 3 minutes. This is with good form; no jerking or bands, as per CrossFit (f* you all). A few days later I did it for an hour until I got bored (120 pull-ups), then did my normal bench/tricep routine, and a final 8 pull-ups for good measure (128 total). Nobody else even bothered to participate after that. But my lifetime max set is only 27 pull-ups.

Similarly, my lifetime max set of dips is only 30.

Again, I am no world-record holder, but i have never met anyone with better strength endurance than me, and 100 pull-ups and 100 dips is very, very hard!

Even worse, these sorts of sets are mainly endurance! They do not add mass! (see my previous post)

P.S., this was in direct response to Shlomo Goldbergstein.

(I don't know how people manage to quote previous posts inline on this board).

Also, I meant do sets of 16 push-ups in various configurations each 1:30 for 15 minutes. The 16 is because sometimes you will alternate left/right, so it keeps things balanced.

Brev wrote:

Running is my passion but I'm definitely getting sick of looking like a twig. Is there any way I can put on some muscle while running this much? I don't mind putting in the time but I'd like to get the most out of lifting.

I've been lifting for an hour, 3 times a week for several months and have barely noticed any improvement. Can someone with more experience give me some tips (number of reps, sets, type of lift, days per week, diet, etc.)?

typical workout (4 sets, all 10 reps):

dumbbell curls (20,25,30,35)

body weight dips (10x,12x,15x,max)

pull ups (8,10,12, max)

bench (100,115,120,125)

dumbbell shoulder press (20,25,30,35)

shrugs @ 180lb (10x,15x,20x,max)

pec machine (100,115,130,145)

dumbbell shoulder fly (10,12,15,15)

Q: Are you training your whole body, AKA all your major muscle groups?

A: No, I'm only training my upper body

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Are you training progressively, i.e. are you increasing the reps, weight or both of each exercise at each training session (while keeping form slow, smooth and comparable from session to session), or, in instances where a specific muscle group is being trained by two or more exercises, is the net total increasing?

For example, if your rep range for leg presses is 15-20--

Session 1: Monday 03-02-25--Leg Press--300lbs x 18

Session 2: Monday 03-09-15--Leg Press--300lbs x 23

Session 3: Monday 03-16-15--Leg Press--330lbs x 16

Session 4: Monday 03-23-15--Leg Press--330lbs x 18

A:????

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Are you training infrequently enough to allow each muscle group to fully recover to allow progression (increases in strength & size) to occur (typically, for a strength training "newbie", training each muscle group once every 3 to 5 days is a good starting place.)?

A: No, I train each muscle group an average of once every 2.333 days.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've no idea whether your diet is good, poor, or somewhere in between.Some info would be very useful. Ditto sleep.

Four sets per exercise is at best, most likely, a waste of time. Were you training extremely intensely, overtraining would be a possibility, but you seem to be training moderately intensely, on the whole.

10 reps per exercise is likely to lie within an optimal rep-range for many exercises. Focusing on reaching a specific number and then stopping = shortchanging your body.

Brev wrote:

Running is my passion but I'm definitely getting sick of looking like a twig. Is there any way I can put on some muscle while running this much? I don't mind putting in the time but I'd like to get the most out of lifting.

I've been lifting for an hour, 3 times a week for several months and have barely noticed any improvement. Can someone with more experience give me some tips (number of reps, sets, type of lift, days per week, diet, etc.)?

typical workout (4 sets, all 10 reps):

dumbbell curls (20,25,30,35)

body weight dips (10x,12x,15x,max)

pull ups (8,10,12, max)

bench (100,115,120,125)

dumbbell shoulder press (20,25,30,35)

shrugs @ 180lb (10x,15x,20x,max)

pec machine (100,115,130,145)

dumbbell shoulder fly (10,12,15,15)

BTW, Brev--if you post a link to an email address, I'll be happy to help you with your quest...

More thoughts....

Look up old school bodybuilding. Prior to steroids training splits were either 3 x wk total body or 4 x wk upper/lower split. Old school powerlifters literally did nothing but press, squat, and deadlift 3 x week.

Rep range doesn't matter as long as you are progressing and eating and putting tension on the muscle. A bodybuilder will conduct an exercise to put focus on a muscle group. A powerlifter is trying to use his whole body to lift as much as possible.

Focus on large barbell movements and multijoint movements. For bIceps rows and chins take you 90% of the way. Curls give you that extra 10%.

I would suggest a 4 day upper/lower split.

Upper

Barbell bench: 5x5

Pullups 5x5

Push press 5x5

Barbell row 5x5

Preacher curl 4 x 10

Skullcrusher 4 x 10

Lateral raise 4 x 10

*use two set rule. 1-2 warm up sets. 2-3 work sets. When you can do two sets in a row at that weight then next workout add 5%.

Lower

Squat or Deadlift 5 x 5

RDL or Leg Press 5 x 5

Leg ext. 4 x 10

Leg curl 4 x 10

Calves 4 x 10

Walking lunge (load up a barbell with 30% of your squat weight and go lunge, back and forth, across the hall wherever) go for distance.

Abs: incline situp & hanging leg raises 3 sets each

Alan

When I read anything from xfit guy it rings through my head as if it were spoken by a ranting Dick Vitale with his eyes bulging out.

Amusing and annoying all at once.

Good sample size Sad But True - and it's certainly not possible that someone is more fit than you.

It's not that difficult. Here's my routine. I do this in the AM and in the PM on Mon and Fri. It takes 30-40 min. The totals I my prior post reflect this.

10 pull

10 - 15 push

10 dip

6x in the AM, 6x in the PM - twice per week (bc it works with my wife's gym schedule).

This is basically Dean Karnazes' workout - but he does it more frequently.

It works for me...

It would depend on your body type first off. It would depend also on the intensity of your running training. In jogging I could probably gain weight if I over ate and worked out.

If you want to look bigger without having to gain or try to much then work on your neck, lats, shoulders and pecs. Boom. You'll look bigger and won't have to change your running physique.

Mike Tyson Chicken Nuggets wrote:

It would depend on your body type first off. It would depend also on the intensity of your running training. In jogging I could probably gain weight if I overate and worked out.

If you want to look bigger without having to gain or try too much then work on your neck, traps, shoulders. Boom. You'll look bigger and won't have to change your running physique.

fixed.

Some really interesting discussion. I feel like I am in a similar position the OP. Question to the more experienced posters here. If I didn't want to add size but just be more defined, how would the workout change in terms of weight, reps, and frequency (per week I guess)? Maybe as a starting point, I do core and some upper body alternating ever other day (45-60min sessions, pretty good mix of body weight and traditional weight) and found that I became slightly more defined provided I eat enough and clean (these last two become very difficult on a busy schedule and am open to suggestions from other people). However, I seem to quickly lose gains on a bad week. Did anyone invest in a body weight scale to track? Are there decent books out there that can bring me up to speed?

Thanks,

'

I would echo the recommendation to use exercises for the lower body, especially squats. There is some body of research that suggests that such exercises prompt the body to produce extra testosterone, which can pay benefits as you try to add mass in your upper body.

Second, I also agree that you should incorporate different numbers of reps (high and low rep counts) with exercises, not necessarily in the same workout. In doing so, you stress different muscle fibers in each muscle, which again can help garner mass gains.

Finally, to echo the need for excess calories -- note that most body builders and weightlifters, etc., incorporate principles of periodization into their workout year. When they are trying to build mass, they don't worry about definition, etc. Having extra fat actually helps create the conditions in your body to produce extra muscle.

Hence, you might consider periodizing your own running and exercising calendar to create more favorable conditions for building muscle mass. Cut back on running and perhaps endurance activities generally for a number of months -- or at least incorporate alternate endurance activities such as bicycling or swimming for some of the running -- during your "mass building" phase. Then build back up to running 60 mpw, while trying to maintain your muscularity.