Thanks for posting this Jack.
Thanks for posting this Jack.
xenonscreams wrote:
Jack Bacheler wrote:I did 50x440 while in college, but never finished the full 60x440 workout described in John's novel.
Just me out on the track one evening in late August. My plan was to run 4x (5x440(110)) (440), just like in the book. But after finishing the first set I decided to go for another. I finished that set after falling into the 68-70 range per lap and the 110 jog had slowed from 27-30 to 33-35 seconds.
I had been talking with a lot of the guys that I had been training with and we would always talk about these transcendental experiences and barriers that one really had to break through to be "there." And I knew that I had never been there, and that it would take something drastic to get "there."
So I went for another set, believing that this was the existentialist breakthrough that would define my running career thereafter. It was not about gaining fitness, it was August. It was about conquering the mind, and allowing myself to truly believe that I could push my body to limits that no other human believed was possible. At the time I didn't think there were many guys left doing these kinds of workouts, but we had all heard about the Africans running 250 miles a week.
The last set I completely deteriorated. My legs were completely numb and I swear I could feel my body eating itself from the inside out. So after becoming exhausted, I ran number 50 in 1:28 and called it a day. I laid on the grass field inside of the track for at least an hour.
I was unable to run for 3-4 days after this.
Wow, thanks for the insight.
Yes, thanks for sharing your experience.
Always used to get my inspiration from guys like Frank, Bill & Steve & yourself
Chris
madam secretary wrote:
Ivadunnman wrote:I've done 12 x 400.
Hasn't everyone?
No
Thanks for sharing, Jack! 50x400 is hard just to think about.
Wow, that's insane to think about. I mean 60x 400m is obviously 15 miles and the pace was for 3k-5k race pace. doing it at 10k pace seems crazy. How many hours did it take to do that 50x400?
Took about 4 hours to do the workout itself.
I was taking 10-15 minute breaks between sets of 20 and the 110 and 440 jogs were getting progressively slower as the workout went on. The idea was for it to be full-recovery between sets of 20, but once the real fatigue set in there was only so much that the break could do for my legs. My breathing would return to normal, but my legs were really aching.
Add in the warmup and it was probably about 4 and a half to 5 hours that I spent out running that day.
In high school the 40 X 440 workout was a Ryun staple. The coach his senior year, J.D. Edmiston, says Jim and one other guy could get through the entire workout. Most of the kids were done by 25. They were 3 minute quarters, so if you ran a 70 you get 1:50 rest. I don't recall what J.D. says Jim's average per quarter was or if they ran it in sets.
A regular Timmons workout was 20 x 440, two sets of 10, called 2 minute quarters. The top guys usually ran 60 flat.
I have done 105.4875 x 400 meters with no rest.
I am not quite sure what the point would be to do 60 x 400 meters.
T-Rex wrote:
xenonscreams wrote:Wow, thanks for the insight.
Yes, thanks for sharing your experience.
Always used to get my inspiration from guys like Frank, Bill & Steve & yourself
Chris
Incredible. You are a legend Jack
Flo'da
Fiction. Mitchin' wrote:
Ummm...you all realize he is not a real person and the book was a work of fiction. I wonder how many other fictional activities in books you all will try.
Sorry someone would allow themselves to have some fun with the sport of their choice without your approval
Barrister wrote:
Did 30x400 in college as 10x400 (1 min recovery) and 400 jog between each set of 10. Averaged 71.5 for the 30 quarters. Good strength workout. I recall Jim Ryun used to do 40x400 workouts in HS or was it 60x400. Can any of the historians elaborate?
Yes, Jim Ryun and his high school team used to do 40x400. Jim would do them exceptionally fast (if i remember correctly, he said 67-70). His teammates would usually fall apart. All in all, his high school coach's methods weren't suitable for all young runners. It just so happened that Ryun was an extraordinary case, so it ended up working out for him, who was doing 100+ mpw in high school.
Rbyrne wrote:
I have done 105.4875 x 400 meters with no rest.
You didn't fool us. You finished a mary, congrats.
I think that fictional workout was an exaggeration of Ryun's 40x440 workout that he did under Timmons. He talks about it in this interview:
"What was your training like back then?
Coach Timmons was primarily a swim coach who took a lot of his principles and converted them into track, middle-distance and distance running. Nowadays, we’ll say that we overtrained back then. But we had a lot of success and some great teams. We were running maybe 50 or 60 miles a week, and they were pretty high-quality miles. We would run a lot of repeat quarters. One of the workouts was 40 times a quarter mile; 10 miles total, and we’d average 69 seconds a quarter in blocks of 10. It was a pretty good workout. When I said that God gave me some wonderful talent, he really did. Although at that time, I still couldn’t believe it was happening to me."
Jack Bacheler wrote:
Took about 4 hours to do the workout itself.
I was taking 10-15 minute breaks between sets of 20 and the 110 and 440 jogs were getting progressively slower as the workout went on. The idea was for it to be full-recovery between sets of 20, but once the real fatigue set in there was only so much that the break could do for my legs. My breathing would return to normal, but my legs were really aching.
Add in the warmup and it was probably about 4 and a half to 5 hours that I spent out running that day.
Do you remember taking in any calories during this workout?
Back in my younger days, did 32x440, 440 jog. Also did a 52x220,220 jog at 5K pace. I guess the difficulty isn't the distance; the 32 x 440, 440 jog is 16 miles total, the 52 x 220, 220 jog is 13 miles total; it's the pace you run at. The 220 workout was difficult, but doable, because of the 220 jog; gave enough recovery to do the next one. I remember when I got to #40 I thought only 12 more to go! It was very satisfying workout, one of the better ones.
60x440, don't know if I could have done that one; that's 120 laps; 30 miles total. I'm sure some guys could knock it out.
Sounds as legendary as completing 5 full Ironman tri's in 5 consecutive days. In all honesty I'll rather do the Kyokushin 100 kumite challenge.
Sounds as legendary as completing 5 full Ironman tri's in 5 consecutive days. In all honesty I'll rather do the Kyokushin 100 kumite challenge.