I'm getting conflicting info on this. Some say they are completely safe, others say they can ruin your spine or back for the rest of your life.
What do you guys think? Is the risk not worth the benefits? The squat, deadlift and the full clean are the best strength building exercises in a runner lifting program. Are there any suitable machine alternatives?
Are leg press + plyometrics (for stabilizer muscles) a good replacement for the squat? Trap bar deadlift for a regular deadlift??
1. stay away from the leg press
2. if you already do squats, deadlifts, and olympic lifts without pain continue, just don't do the same amount of volume as you age. I can't do the explosive lifts anymore and I do variations of squats and deadlifts I'm in my mid 50s)
3. the trap bar is a great tool by all means use it
4. do plyometrics
read Mike Robertson, Mike Boyle, Dan John, BJ Gaddour,,Alwyn Cosgrove
I do squats on a power rack at 58, high wt low reps, and somne DL, but am very careful with technique and progression. Videos and professional tech help are warranted, and valuable. Doesn't seem to help my running a ton, but overall strength is worth it.
Considering the goal of maintaining optimum strength with age, and avoiding useless bulk:
The clean & overhead press is fine as long as your balance is stable. I personally like the snatch & clean & jerk but don't do them anymore for reasons of safety. I recommend only doing singles for strength, and not taking any chances. Your strength will develop with the exercises you do, but don't strain.
Hills are excellent for maintaining leg strength, whether hiking, walking, or running.
Back squats can be dangerous, and have no useful purpose for running. I don't do plyometrics, as they can easily lead to injuries, and single muscle group exercises such as for the traps are totally worthless.
what's wrong with doing a leg press? Isn't it the squat movement without the force exerted on the spine?
long day wrote:
I'm getting conflicting info on this. Some say they are completely safe, others say they can ruin your spine or back for the rest of your life.
What do you guys think? Is the risk not worth the benefits? The squat, deadlift and the full clean are the best strength building exercises in a runner lifting program. Are there any suitable machine alternatives?
Are leg press + plyometrics (for stabilizer muscles) a good replacement for the squat? Trap bar deadlift for a regular deadlift??
yes, just squat. its safe if ur form is clean
Since running is a single leg activity, I think single leg exercises are better.
Do pistol squats and single leg deadlifts. Body weight should be enough for the former. For the latter, use some dumbbells.
no,run and do plyo's only. don't screw around after you turn 35 , not worth it being crippled later in life.
I'd suggest reading everything Bill DeSimone has written RE exercise safety.
Congruent Exercise is a great read, for one. His videos are also excellent.
Drew Baye is similarly excellent.
If safety is your priority, those movements, along with plyometrics and other explosive lifting movements, are to be avoided. It's your body, of course.
What does being 40 have to do with anything? People need to stop thinking this way. You know why everybody slows down after age 30 in life? Because they've been told their entire life that they should slow down after age 30. You can squat and deadlift when you're 70 if you do it right. A 26 yo will hurt themselves doing squats if they use poor form.
I'm 44, I squat and deadlift every week. Just start slowly and use proper technique and you do these lifts your whole life.
Nothing wrong with the leg press. It's great at building quad mass. It's not the same as a squat, not all the same muscles worked. The leg press doesn't get much core & hip involvement that is needed to keep you stable on a squat. But I do both - get the squats done while my legs are fresh and then move on to the leg press. I'm 45 and do all those exercises without any issues - just need to practice good form.
long day wrote:
what's wrong with doing a leg press? Isn't it the squat movement without the force exerted on the spine?
I don't think it makes sense to waste your time doing squats, deadlifts and olympic lifts. Just go down to your local box and get on the crossfit train. You will be ripped and buff in no time. The grannies will be warm for your form.
You have the potential to do more harm with leg press due to increased weight.
People don't lift cuz they don't want to hurt their back but their backs are weak cuz they don't lift.
I will have to look it up but there are some pretty high forces placed on the lower spine and pelvis during leg press...if you actually do a full range of motion.
Perform all exercises with proper form. Progress gradually and you will have no problems.
Squats and Lunges are the best strength training exercises for runners...unless someone tells me the hip and knee joints and surrounding muscles have no use for running?...didn't think so.
Do plyos. Box jumps. Split jumps.
In order of progression: basic fundamental bodyweight movements (squatting, lunging, pushing, pulling, reaching, etc), then load those movement patterns (weight training), then use those loaded patterns in dynamic exercise (plyos...the application of a physical train, in this case strength speed and power). All of the above improves the ability of the muscle to produce force improving running economy. You can't run on hearts and lungs alone...something structural provides the locomotion
Alan
regarding the leg press, it minimizes core involvement, it may place forces on the spine as you press your back into the back of the seat, and like most if not all machine exercises balance is not a factor and you can compensate for a weaker leg.
coach wrote:
regarding the leg press, it minimizes core involvement, it may place forces on the spine as you press your back into the back of the seat, and like most if not all machine exercises balance is not a factor and you can compensate for a weaker leg.
This is very interesting. I'm 64, all-round healthy, and just got back from gym where I workout 5 days and week, run 3 days, and throw in round of weights twice a week, including the leg press. What do you suggest for one or two exercises to maintain leg strength and balance as I age that is relatively quick, without all the process of loading weights on/off the bar, etc.(that was why I was doing the leg process; also I don't want to add bulk.)
This is a good question. I have been thinking of going back to these exercises. I am in my mid-forties, and I have not done them since my teens/early twenties. Back then, I had good form in doing these exercises. I wonder how much they can improve my running. I think the additional strength gained would help in regard to injury prevention.
I use a recumbent bike for my "cross-training." It is more comfortable than an upright stationary bike, and my back seems to feel better. I see that leg presses have been mentioned here. The recumbent bike has that leg press position/feel. Is this bad on the joints, etc.?
Not understanding wrote:
What does being 40 have to do with anything? People need to stop thinking this way. You know why everybody slows down after age 30 in life? Because they've been told their entire life that they should slow down after age 30. You can squat and deadlift when you're 70 if you do it right. A 26 yo will hurt themselves doing squats if they use poor form.
I'm 44, I squat and deadlift every week. Just start slowly and use proper technique and you do these lifts your whole life.
Yup. I started in my 40's and have nothing but a positive experience. Form matters!!!!!!!
Plyometrics, IMO, is very advanced. You have to have excellent form to do the movements with precision at speed. If the form is not there, then the potential for injury is much, much higher.
After the age of 40 (45) we lose 3-5% of our muscle mass per year.
It's absolutely essential we do full body strength exercises like squats, and deadlifts because they are the most effective with THE LEAST amount of time under load at producing growth hormone release.
Hire a trainer and learn correct form.
If they are done correctly they are far less risky to your long term health than say running a marathon...or a marathon every weekend like the maniacs do.
Not understanding wrote:
I'm 44, I squat and deadlift every week. Just start slowly and use proper technique and you do these lifts your whole life.
^This.
In addition, if you feel ANY pain other than muscle burn, stop for the day, re-assess your technique, and drop the weight way down the next time you try it to ensure you've got it right.
That sounds like common sense, but who has the courage to do 70 lb squats in a public gym until everything's working smoothly.
ScaryStuff wrote:
coach wrote:regarding the leg press, it minimizes core involvement, it may place forces on the spine as you press your back into the back of the seat, and like most if not all machine exercises balance is not a factor and you can compensate for a weaker leg.
This is very interesting. I'm 64, all-round healthy, and just got back from gym where I workout 5 days and week, run 3 days, and throw in round of weights twice a week, including the leg press. What do you suggest for one or two exercises to maintain leg strength and balance as I age that is relatively quick, without all the process of loading weights on/off the bar, etc.(that was why I was doing the leg process; also I don't want to add bulk.)
Any weight training exercise has the potential to add bulk if programmed I'm such a way.
Your best bet for leg strength is squat and lunge variations. DB bulgarian lunges are good for improved stability.
If you dont feel like loading or unloading a bar.....can't help ya there. It'd like putting on running shoes
Alan