Thanks for the responses. Original goal is too fast in retrospect. 5:10 seems a good first step.
I'll work on speed over the winter. I can't say it's going well with lack of time and can't even hold a 6:15 tempo lately.
It seems like Achilles problems are common for older mile/1500 racers. Isn't that why Ed W. moved up to the marathon? Hope to avoid that somehow.
OP, I would strongly advise lifting weights. Don't spend too much time or energy on it, but increasing your calf, quad, glute and lower back strength can help considerably with the impact at higher speeds.
As a general rule, squatting 1.6x your body weight would be plenty of strength in the quads, glutes, back. For the calves, holding that much weight (like at the top of a deadlift), and doing controlled heel raises for 3-5 reps would indicate enough strength as well.
More than likely you are pretty far away from those standards if you can't break 75 in the 400. Your 200 speed should be in the low 30.xx range and 400 in the high 64.xx range if you want to break 5:00 for the mile. A 5:25 mile tells me you can probably hit a 70.5 or thereabouts for the 400 currently.
It does not sound that hard to those who have run much faster, but after 40, reality starts to set in. Unless you are a freak of nature, you can't do 3-4 quality days every week anymore and you can't do 80-90mpw. You get sore hamstrings & calfs when you do speed work and need to do a lot of extra stretching and strengthening to stave off the ravages of time. Most people are unwilling or unable to put in that time and effort. Some percentage of those willing will get injured trying.
All you have to do is go to this web page to get an idea how few people are doing it. It is not a truly comprehensive list, but it is pretty good. You'll find names of former Olympic Trials runners and the like who are now running 40sec slower than they did in their prime.
zohan wrote:
excellent view wrote:Not bad, but I know a 280 lbs., 57 year old guy with elephantiasis, cystic fibrosis, 2 hip replacements, and severe halitosis that just ran 4:08 off 15 mpw.
You think that's tough? When I was kid we lived in the lake! Every morning we'd have to wake up, clean the lake, then our father would feed us a lump of cold poison and then cut us in half... AND WE LIKED IT.
But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'
elephino wrote:
I know a guy who is 230 lbs, 34 years old, and only started running a couple years ago. He only runs three times a week, has a detached hamstring and a dislocated hip, and he runs a 4:15 mile.
For those who didn't catch on, he who shall not be named actually claims what I described.
This post being deleted by the moderators in 3, 2, ...
elephino wrote:
elephino wrote:I know a guy who is 230 lbs, 34 years old, and only started running a couple years ago. He only runs three times a week, has a detached hamstring and a dislocated hip, and he runs a 4:15 mile.
For those who didn't catch on, he who shall not be named actually claims what I described.
This post being deleted by the moderators in 3, 2, ...
Ooooooohhhh, you didn't include his other feats of manliness.
Stuck at 5:30 right now. I'm going to increase the mpw to 40 and go from there. Did an 8x200 set at 32 seconds and it felt too hard. Clearly mileage is too low.
elephino wrote:
I know a guy who is 230 lbs, 34 years old, and only started running a couple years ago. He only runs three times a week, has a detached hamstring and a dislocated hip, and he runs a 4:15 mile.
holy shit man.
some true words. but you should compare mastersrankings.com with
http://www.runbritainrankings.com/rankings/
.
it seems as if britain is the superpower of masters athletics. i still can´t believe how many fast old guys, all distances. why?
Good subject. I've been reading, and enjoying, LRC for about 2 yrs now since i started running again. Primarily, i run lsd, and hope to run a half this spring after 15 yrs or so from non-running. I've taken a lot of good tips and advice from LRC and ask a somewhat similar question. As a 59 yr old currently only doing only basic easy and tempo runs, and a 12 miler every other week, what could i expect to run a mile, and how soon, with the right training. As an 18 yr old, when i last ran any speedwork, i ran 4:18mile, 1:52 880 and 50 (49.8) 440. Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.
42 is barely a master. Can you be more precise? Are you 40 or 70?
ron c wrote:
Good subject. I've been reading, and enjoying, LRC for about 2 yrs now since i started running again. Primarily, i run lsd, and hope to run a half this spring after 15 yrs or so from non-running. I've taken a lot of good tips and advice from LRC and ask a somewhat similar question. As a 59 yr old currently only doing only basic easy and tempo runs, and a 12 miler every other week, what could i expect to run a mile, and how soon, with the right training. As an 18 yr old, when i last ran any speedwork, i ran 4:18mile, 1:52 880 and 50 (49.8) 440. Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.
I am a 65 year old who did not run nearly as fast as you when I was younger. However, I have run generally in the 30-50 mpw range for most of my life, and kept myself within 10lbs of my college racing weight (130lbs) through that time. On an average of about 45 mpw last year, usually with 2 hard workouts per week and a few injury interruptions to training, I ran 19:29 5K, 39:48 10K, and 1:29:17 1/2 marathon. If you can stay healthy and get in some consistent mileage with at least one fairly hard run per week, you should be able to do substantially better than my times. Good luck with it.
Very hard!
80 miles a week
Thanks. Those are, in my opinion, AWESOME times you are running. My half target this spring is only 1:42. I run about 30mpw. I definitely need to pick up the mileage along with some intensity. Appreciate it...
master123456 wrote:
Hard. I'd guess if you could run 4:25 or less back in the day (hs, college), then you should have a decent chance of doing sub 5 at 40. Just a guess though based on one data point.
Nonononononono.
4:25 in HS or college is leaps better than 4:59 as a Master. Geez, do you really think someone should be 35 seconds slower in a mile by the time they hit 40? 35 seconds is a huge chunk of change for a mile.
Anyone who ran a 4:25 back in the day but can't crack 5 minutes at age 40 is probably not putting much effort into it, or put on a bunch of weight or something.
I set my 5K, mile, 1500m, 800m, 400m and 100m PRs at 51/52.
I agree.
A ton depends on your life situation. Early 40's I ran my lifetime PRs of 2:05/4:40 while guys that creamed me in HS/college, 1:55/4:15/14:30 types, were now saddled with mortgage/kids/wife and couldn't break 5 despite serious effort. I was single and more fit overall than in my 20s due to cross-training and better diet, studied training theory and coached, and ran higher mileage as well. I could only run as intensely on intervals only during peak phase though, and got banged up pretty bad by 50. I'm now on the rebound for 60.....
The other thing is that talent DOES go away between 25 and 65, and often even by 45. One look at the masters record books shows that.
I ran 4:35 in HS, 4:30 in college, and 4:47 at age 43. I have terrible speed though, could never break 60 for 400m, but ran 2500-3000 miles a year for more than two decades. I just did hard, hilly long runs and then once a week intervals like 3 x 1600 at 5:09 with 3 min rest or 8 x 400 at 71 with 90 sec rest.
Good luck
You only need to run a single mile to run a 4:59 mile as a master. You could run more, but you're better off kicking on the last lap than continuing, if your goal is a 4:59.