Can we get NCAAs out of Indiana?

How about a course like VCP in NY or Holmdel in NJ? Both have great college courses, there is plenty of lodging in both locations, and they are real cross country courses. I think yearly the event should transfer locations it keeps the whole event fresh, but make it about the course not just the location.

saturdaywatcher wrote:

Why would anyone want to go to the meet nowadays when they can watch FAR more of it from the warmth]

I didnt go this year because the weather was going to be cold. I usually just sleep in my car the night before. Since most teams only run 2 or 3 other times, they should move the meet up about 3 weeks for warmer weather.

I will probably go down to Louisvville next week for D2.

casual fanatic................ wrote:

saturdaywatcher wrote:

Why would anyone want to go to the meet nowadays when they can watch FAR more of it from the warmth]

I didnt go this year because the weather was going to be cold. I usually just sleep in my car the night before. Since most teams only run 2 or 3 other times, they should move the meet up about 3 weeks for warmer weather.

I will probably go down to Louisvville next week for D2.

Cold? It was in the 50s when the men started, that's not cold, cold is what it was when it was hosted by Northern Iowa, 17 degrees and wind chills below 0. That's cold!

In discussing attendance, I'll try to get attendance numbers and report back, I know we had more this year than last year, and more than Louisville had in 2012. Not sure how attendance compares to when the meet was still on Monday (last in 2011)

I'm usually the go-to guy for attendance data but I don't have it for last few NCAA XC meets.

It's quite simple: the NCAA doesn't "put" the meet somewhere unless a host school bids for it. I at least appears that only ISU and Louisville have submitted suitable bids. Personally, I think ISU's course and meet management has significantly raised the bar and few if any schools can match it.

When I travel to a meet, I figure that my time will be spent at the meet, at the bar, or sleeping. What the city itself offers is of no importance. And if you don't like Terre Haute, stay in Indy. It's barely over an hour from there to the course.

I think the meet is very well-run in Terre Haute. They know the drill.

I liked some things in past years like painting the names of all the schools on the long uphill, some glitz like that seemed to be missing this year. Flotrack didn't have a tent or big presence that I could see. Some stuff like that made this year feel a little less exciting.

Agree with everyone who said Louisville was not good. Wouldn't call it a fiasco but wouldn't want it there again either.

Agree with jsquire, Indianapolis is a great town and there's plenty to do there. Why stay in Terre Haute if you're just there to watch?

The course in Terre Haute is a good, fair XC course. I don't know of many other courses that are at least somewhat tough and can handle the volume of runners. The Louisville course can't properly handle the volume of competitive runners (ask anyone who ran there at nats last time). I think a place like Van Cortland just doesn't have wide enough lanes. Wisconsin seems like a good possibility but for whatever reason they haven't bid yet or something else is wrong there. Where else is a viable option?

Last, the town of Terre Haute and ISU deserve lots of credit for trying to own up to the moniker "XC Town USA" and working hard to put on a meet. You might not notice a lot of little things till you leave.

I have been involved with the NCAA meet management along with being a practicing coach. The NCAA can only award the meet to institutions who bid. 99% of the DI programs will not bid since it can turn out to be a money losing proposition. But Indiana State has created a world-class management system that allows them to recoup revenue. Good for them. Simply put, Terre Haute may not be the greatest place on earth, but there is no one in the country that does all the behind the scenes stuff better than Coach McNichols and Coach Gartland. They are the class of DI cross country. One other salient point. When the NCAA receives bids there is a cost assessment that is done. If the NCAA has a choice whether to send the meet to NYC or Terre Haute the Hoosier state will always get the nod due to cost. The NCAA has to fly and provide per diem to all participants and the cost to send events to expensive areas is prohibitive. That is why when there was a proposal about 10 years ago to move the meet to Thanksgiving weekend the NCAA turned it down given the added airfare around that time. I am still concerned about Louisville given the serious meet management issues that were there the last time which haven't been addressed.

Terre Haute is an awesome course. They have the organizational issues down pact. That's no small or easy matter.

There is no reason to move the meet anywhere else, other than for the sake of variety. But in Terre Haute, you know just what you will be dealing with and that is another plus, in terms of the runners/coaches knowing the nature of the course and the nature of the entire event.

One reason that the Penn Relays doesn't move around every year is that they have got it together and the fans, the athletes, the coaches, the administrators all know the drill.

ISU is one of the greatest sports schools in the history of the American experience. No other school in America has produced as many notable athletes as ISU.

LeVerne-Gibson is a very good course with lots of infrastructure both physical and personnel. Few places can match it. Any place that can get close to matching it ought to get the race occasionally. The Wisconsin course is probably the best alternative, and the course itself is probably better, but the infrastructure still seems to be developing.

Zimmer helped make this course possible and maybe he is helping them fulfill some of the remaining elements. I suspect that parking can be managed (there is lots of farmland that is fallow by later November and maybe can be used (Google Maps shows farmed fields immediately west and south of the course).

One advantage of having it at ISU is that it is there so often that teams do not have to run Pre-Nats because many of seen the course enough. Would the Wisco/Adidas meet at the Zimmer course become PreNats (it is the same weekend) if it was in Madison?

Madison is definitely a much more interesting place to be for a race weekend and is still centrally located, though not quite so close for those driving from the east coast (for family/friends). What was attendance like when the meet was last held near Madison - that is before I paid much attention to college XC (a tad young then)?

There's nothing quite as precious as an Indiana State fanboy. And just when I thought it couldn't get any funnier.

"Indiana State has created a world class management system"

"They are the class of DI cross country"

"the Hoosier state will always get the nod due to costs"

There is a reason why the Hoosier state will always get the nod due to costs. Nobody with a functioning brain would spend a second in that state if they had a choice to be elsewhere.

The gratuitous shot at Louisville only adds to the humor. "OMG, Buffy and Mitzi, DI collegiate coach is concerned about serious meet management issues!!!" The DI selection committee wasn't, obviously.

Terre Haute will be having a quiet 2015.

I've only been to one NCAA xcountry championship in Wisconsin - and it was around twenty degrees, the start was about 3/4's of a mile from the starting line, snow and ice were in abundance.

Granted, bad weather can occur anywhere and Indiana is certainly not immune, but Wisconsin is risky in the third week in November.

It cracks me up to read the TH fanboy slobbering over that abandoned cornfield. Louisville hosts one year and the TH fanboys want to talk about the experience as though it's been in Louisville for years. It's taken a while for TH to get to this point, and Louisville will get there as well. Giving them multiple years will create an increased incentive to invest in the sort of infrastructure one needs to enhance the experience. Louisville is so much better than TH, it's like comparing a Cadillac to a Pinto.

Haters gonna hate.

Or hater in this case, as it's painfully obvious it's one jerk with a bug up his ass posting under multiple user names.

Sycamores wrote:

ISU is one of the greatest sports schools in the history of the American experience. No other school in America has produced as many notable athletes as ISU.

hahaha

I have pulled the weather for the period covering the meet (e.g. 11/22 +/-3days) for Madison. Until this year there had only been a minor amount of snow until the last week in November over the last half dozen or more years. Notably, these years includes a group of four in a row where the new record was set (25 inches beyond the old record) and the average of the four equal the old record. There was no more than 4 inches in November, and virtually of that was the last week.

The Regionals are 8 days before NCAAs and the weather for the Regionals has been cool to sort of cold but only to the extent of runners using the newly popular sleeves a some running in tights, typically on slower runners (6/7) and slower teams,

Over the last 30 years Madison has gotten warmer by the amount that Madison is warmer than Minneapolis. The warmer current period is too warm for consistent snow. This year is an anomaly, more elsewhere than Madison, which will probably finish the month with 8 inches of snow total.

Le. High.

DI collegiate coach wrote:

I am still concerned about Louisville given the serious meet management issues that were there the last time which haven't been addressed.

Not trolling - what management issues are you referring to?

Stupidest fooking post in a long time.

There was a timing issue or something in the women's race, where initially the wrong results were announced. Not sure if that's what the post was referring to. I don't think that was a huge deal, but not what you expect at a championship either.

More concerning about Lville for me was the course not being able to handle the championship field (especially the 90-degree left turn at 600m) and not being as spectator-friendly.