Amnesty without securing the border??? You say there is a problem but not fixing what caused it in the first place??

I didn't ask you if you cared.

No, but the simple question about him specifically makes it seem like I would care if he went to jail. Otherwise, you would have said, "so you think anyone who employs illegals should go to jail?" It is almost as if you thought I was a republican and would be so offended at the thought of Mitt going to jail.

Oh no you dint wrote:

I didn't ask you if you cared.

get used to it.. wrote:

It should be a federal crime to hire, pay employ, etc...anyone who isn't a citizen or anyone who doesn't have permission to legally be here. The should have no access to healthcare or education. Their children, even if born here, should not be citizens. Take away people's perks for wanting to come here. If they know they can't get healthcare, find jobs and get their kids citizenship or an education, there would be no incentive to come.

It's already a federal crime to hire illegal aliens. But it's not enforced much. Those who buy our politicians want cheap labor. End of story.

What....exactly is the issue?

The US has an immigration rate that is well below that of Canada's. The US can and should raise its naturalization rate to 3mm/yr or 1%. Canada's is about that, and at 21% immigrants compared to the US 13%, is doing quite well

And what do immigrants get/want? They get no healthcare, no benefits, no social security etc. they have no legal standing, cannot press charges in any tort.

Are people expecting there to be a flood of immgrants if these ones are granted amnesty? That has already happened.

All I really hear are 2nd grade complaints of, "fairness" and, "breaking the law".

I'm a liberal lib. I do not think the President should be taking executive action that is tantamount to passing a law.

You want to enact military policy (eg, Don't Ask Don't Tell), that's one thing, because the President is Commander-in-Chief.

But this...I do not like this. The slope is too slippery. I don't care if Congress is obstructionist. If you can't get anything done, then you don't get anything done. I would rather that than any branch overstepping its authority.

They should put drones all along the border and just put them on auto-shoot! That would stop the hordes.

get used to it.. wrote:

They could build a wall, or have more men on foot, etc...the border itself isn't the issue.

Then why are you discussing it?

get used to it.. wrote: It should be a federal crime to hire, pay employ, etc...anyone who isn't a citizen or anyone who doesn't have permission to legally be here. The should have no access to healthcare ....

Speaking of you being an imbecile: as someone already mentioned, It ALREADY is against the law to hire or help an illegal alien get a job, and they can't get health insurance through Obamacare or most gov't programs (some emergency care only, through medicaid). Do you even know the laws on these topics that you are complaining about?? Clearly not.

And I guess you want "Obama the dictator" to unilaterally pass the other laws you request? Like these (in order for your "the US should...." request list to be met, the below would be required)-

1) disregard and overturn US supreme court rulings on access to public primary and secondary school undocumented children

2) overturn the 14th amendment that declared that people born here are citizens

3) Overturn Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA)

?? Is that "all" ? (Lol)

what else? Shoot illegals as they cross the border on sight?

Look clown, if these are the extreme actions you want, get your right wing congress to pass/overturn them (and see how long they get voted out). Don't blame the president for

a) laws that already exist and you were not even aware of

b) laws that he didn't write or pass or have anything to do with, yet you apparently want him to overturn or disregard

libby lib wrote:

I'm a liberal lib. I do not think the President should be taking executive action that is tantamount to passing a law.

You want to enact military policy (eg, Don't Ask Don't Tell), that's one thing, because the President is Commander-in-Chief.

But this...I do not like this. The slope is too slippery. I don't care if Congress is obstructionist. If you can't get anything done, then you don't get anything done. I would rather that than any branch overstepping its authority.

1) I agree Obama should NOT do this, but he is not writing a new law - he is choosing how to enforce the existing laws. This has a long history in US history, including (on a smaller scale), Reagan and Bush 1 acting on immigration without congress.

2) It is impossible to seal the border tight. can't happen. So enough of that talk.

3) the problem with too much immigration is that importing a too-large group of people from a different culture into a wealthy, highly organized society is doomed to fail. I'm all for immigration, but you can't overwhelm the local culture. That is called killing the golden goose. You have immigration at levels that let the newcomers assimilate and learn what made this country so rich.

It is easy to argue that being obstructionist is overstepping its authority.

When Reagan granted amnesty to 2 or 3 million in 1986, we were sworn to by the likes of Ted Kennedy that we would never have to revisit the issue. That the border would be secured. Well it never was.

Fast forward to today - there are approximately 12 to 20 million illegals here. Obama is going to grant amnesty to 5 million and the border still is not secure?

You are saying we can't secure the border. Really? You really think we can't secure the border? We have laser weapons now and we can't stop illegals from crossing the border? Is it really that difficult?

Also, Obama is not writing new law? And comparing him to Reagan. Reagan was presented from Congress a statute authorizing amnest to illegals. He signed a legislature-passed bill. Obama is planning on writing law, an act that is reserved for Congress.

look, I think Obama is making a mistake here, so don't get all pissy.

Here's the Obama argument, courtesy of CNN:

"The executive branch of the U.S. government decides all the time whether or not to pursue certain offenders in much the same way a police officer sometimes turns a blind eye toward a driver traveling at 58 mph in a 55 mph zone but choosing to pull over someone else doing 70.

It's a concept known as prosecutorial discretion and Obama's supporters contend what he is doing is perfectly legal because he is directing U.S. law enforcement agencies where they should focus their attention.

So, instead of seeking to deport the undocumented parents of American citizens, the president is expected to channel resources towards enforcing U.S. borders."

is that a new law? I dunno. You dunno.

As for sealing the border...well ok, We could seal the border. We could also solve the drought in California by building a 3000 mile long pipeline from Maine to Fresno. Hey, if we can build laser weapons, we can do that!

be reasonable, willya?

and this - to put obama's move in perspective:

The elder Bush, for example, used executive power to permit 1.5 million undocumented spouses and children of people shielded from deportation by a previous law to also stay in the United States. White House officials point out that number accounted for about 40 percent of illegal immigrants in the country at the time. Obama could cover a similar proportion of the current total of 11.4 million illegal immigrants with the moves he's expected to announce.

agip wrote:

and this - to put obama's move in perspective:

The elder Bush, for example, used executive power to permit 1.5 million undocumented spouses and children of people shielded from deportation by a previous law to also stay in the United States. White House officials point out that number accounted for about 40 percent of illegal immigrants in the country at the time. Obama could cover a similar proportion of the current total of 11.4 million illegal immigrants with the moves he's expected to announce.

wow. More proof that G. H. W. Bush was an evil tyrant.

Hey idiot...I am discussing it because that is what the post is about. Also idiot, aliens can still receive healthcare. Illegals are educated in our schools without being citizens. They don't need to pay for Obamacare when then can get it for free. And guess what? they won't even be penalized on their taxes for it. I do not want Obama to pass any executive actions. Are you even paying attention? Clearly not. I don't care if congress does or doesn't do anything about immigration, but sure as hell the president shouldn't be making orders about it while bypassing Congress. This is the issue. If you want to try to make points against points I am not even making, then have at it scumbag.

This: It is amazing to me how many don't get this. Both sides of the political spectrum should be concerned about this. This is a President who uses congressional inaction as an excuse to do whatever he wants. Really guys/gals, WTF!

This sets a horrific precedent for the next Prez and strikes a thunderous blow to the foundation of our government, which generally served us well for over 200 years.

Please..please quit defending this guy.

[quote]get used to it.. wrote:

Hey idiot...I am discussing it because that is what the post is about.

Also idiot, aliens can still receive healthcare. Illegals are educated in our schools without being citizens. They don't need to pay for Obamacare when then can get it for free. And guess what? they won't even be penalized on their taxes for it.

I do not want Obama to pass any executive actions. Are you even paying attention? Clearly not. I don't care if congress does or doesn't do anything about immigration, but sure as hell the president shouldn't be making orders about it while bypassing Congress. This is the issue. If you want to try to make points against points I am not even making, then have at it scumbag.

agip wrote:

3) the problem with too much immigration is that importing a too-large group of people from a different culture into a wealthy, highly organized society is doomed to fail. I'm all for immigration, but you can't overwhelm the local culture. That is called killing the golden goose. You have immigration at levels that let the newcomers assimilate and learn what made this country so rich.

This is a strange point. Not the idea that "too much immigration" at one time could be bad, but the rest of your point. The "culture"/environment that these illegals will be joining, for the most, is already very poor (not much poorer than where they came) and is often full of hispanics and other minorities. It's not a much of a culture shock for them or for the people they are joining.

As far as "let the newcomers assimilate and learn what made this country so rich", what does that even mean?? As underpaid, overworked (and very HARD working people) migrant workers, they are finding out FIRST HAND "what made this country rich" ! They are learning the lesson better than most: large corporations wringing the most possible toil they can get from their hard working employees for the least amount of compensation, with a great profit bottom line, and increased stock valuation ( Of course evil unions and evil liberal lawmakers have tried to stop such practices throughout history, turning us almost in a communist state at times, but luckily, the modern repub party has dismantled many of these protections!)

You need to follow the yellow brick road and ask the Wizard for a brain.

get used to it.. wrote:

I don't care if congress does or doesn't do anything about immigration,

You don't care ?? Then WTF are complaining about???

If you really don't care, then stop your incessant bitching about

a) illegals crossing our border

b) illegals receiving free education

c) illegals receiving free Emergency Room healthcare

d) children born to illegals becoming citizens

If you "don't care if congress does or doesn't do anything about (illegal) immigration" issues, then STOP BITCHING, and WHINING, and MOANING about them, because they won't be fixed if congress "does nothing" concerning immigration. And especially stop bitching about these issues in relation to Obama, who had nothing to do with the approval of such laws (all he is doing is not deporting a certain group of parents that have citizen children).

Can you really be this dense? Is it humanly possible? You're putting me on, right? If so, good one, you got me.

JFC

you're right - the reason nations that were formerly english colonies are so massively rich is only because of abusive corproations. hey, you got me. Great argument. And the only reason third world nations have been poor is because they...they...hmmm....i'm sure it's the white man's fault but I can't quite figure it out right now. I'm sure you'll help. Probably something to do with walmart.

sarcasm over.

do you have no common sense? do you truly see the wealth making ability of western countries to be a BAD thing? are you so PC that you insist all culttures are equal in wealth making?