Wang J. vs. Paula Radcliffe controversy!!!

"The Chinese train very hard."

No shit. So do a lot of women NOT running 29:31.

I can't believe people are stupid enough to give credence to a time like 8:06 and chalk it up to "hard training" (as if no one else at the top levels of distance running has been struck with the notion of training hard) when the best women in the world don't even come within a STRAIGHTAWAY of that time.

Short track, drugs, three-peckered females, whatever, there's no reason any of those Chinese marks should remain on the books.

Bell Lap wrote:

I've heard speculation that Junxia's race was a lap short. Anyone know more what are the chances that was the case?

Chances are that they ran 25 laps, Bell Lap. But many people believe that those weren't 400 meter laps.

Here are the facts: 10 of the top 12 3000 meter performances in HISTORY, including the world record, were set on that track over the course of two days, September 12-13, 1993. Two of the top three 10000 meter times in history, including the world record, were set on that same track at the same meet, the 1993 Chinese Championships. Wang Junxia, who won both races, set a personal best of 78 seconds in the 10000, and knocked 6 seconds off her 3000 time from the heats to the finals.

I would guess that the track was intentionally built short, probably because a government employee or contractor then took the money saved and lined his own pockets. Shortening the track even a few meters could add up to 100 meters or more over the course of 25 laps.

One last stab at this: I am not saying Wang Junxia was on anything; nor am I stating the innocence of any male or

female athlete!

My point is no female finishes a World Class 10000m race

at 2 min 45 sec clip for 3000m= 8min 15 secs unless they

are capable of running much faster! Yes faster than

her 1500m PR of 3:51, 3000m-8:06, and definetly faster

than 5000m-14:28 and 10000m-29:31! As a Sports Pscyology

major and former collegiate athlete, I as well as numerous others are puzzled by that (ie Steve Cram (GB) and Ingrid

Kristansen (Nor). At this time Wang have not remotely

approached a single one of those performances that she did

she accomplised in ONE MEET! Yes she doubled in the following Olympics with a Gold & Silver; however, she is

still young and can't approach any of her PR's????

For one moment lets put the drug issue aside: Tatyana

Kazankina (SU) 800m - 5000m, Jarmila Kratochvilova' (Cze)

100m - 800m, and Ingrid Kristansen (Nor) 3000m - Marathon

all destroy one or more records in their prime and

continue to perform at or near those standards for years,

WHY CAN'T WANG JUNXIA!??????!!!!!

I have trained with World Class 100m men, sub 47.30 400m

Hurdler, 8:10 steeple guys, and 28min 10000m men and

never have I seen or studied such an SUPERHUMAN barrier

breaking performane by a YOUNG athlete that they never

approach again! Ask any DISTANCE athlete to run

their 10k-for the first 7000m faster than their previous

PR and then close with a 3000m within 9 seconds of her/his

3000 meter PR!

Karotchilova (800m record holder) was scary looking. When I was in HS and knew nothing of drug use in sports I knew from looking at her pic that something was definitely wrong! 1:53 was a product of Eastern Bloc docs and more testosterone that I've ever had flowing through my body.

The drug, hormone, and chromosome questions surrounding women's athletics makes me think that what constitutes a "female" is almost a subjective matter. In some cases, like the old Eastern Bloc and the modern Chinese, it's like a sideshow. Maybe all top-level women should have to submit to a chromosome test and get a card stating their eligibility to compete as "women."

Yes people train very hard to run world records, and on

steroids, even middle distance runners don't have to

worry about breaking down as much while hammering.

Short track? GO MEASURE IT.

I am sure that track measurements, video tapes, and drug testing are very much a part of the IAAF Protocol for certification for World Records.

Many people on this board have claimed that the Stanford track is short and others in Asia are saying the same thing about the Bangkok track that was used in the 1998 Asian Games.....I think that it is just a lot of crap.

jason

Honcho,

Don't worry, Jolanda Ceplak would win in both categories. Hot and doped.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/specials/european_athletics/2182003.stm

?

Wang was juiced and Paula is on the up and up.

Here I am watching the style channel and ogling the beautiful runway models. Whoa - I have a flash of insight - here is the solution to the problem of womens drug use. All races should now be duathalons in which the time for the race is combined with a score for hotness to determine the winner. Think of the benefits:

- negative incentive for steroid use

- get all those hot runway models involved in running

I mean - those models are tall and thin as f*** - they should be awesome runners. The only thing I can't figure is how to reduce EPO use via some scheme like this. I mean sure the needle marks are unattractive but that's never stopped models from injecting before.

Bad side effect - hotties getting breast reduction. I think we can all agree that iit would be a tragedy if Giselle Bundchen traded them in to race faster - maybe we should have cup classes like wieght classes in wrestling.

Paula is natural bro

Nice bump...life was better in 2002.

Wang ran what? 31min "outside of China" PR?

The short track was discussed previously and is accepted within reasonable doubt.

Paula's 10,000 is nothing out of the ordinary, it's her M that is off the charts.

Nutella1 wrote:

Wang ran what? 31min "outside of China" PR?

The short track was discussed previously and is accepted within reasonable doubt.

Paula's 10,000 is nothing out of the ordinary, it's her M that is off the charts.

Says who?

Anyone with half a brain should realize that given how ONLY women managed to pull off unrealistic times, a short track would make no sense. Yes, because Chinese men don't have particularly good T&F credentials (minus Liu Xiang), it's not too much of a surprise that even with a short track, they could not break any world records. However, not only did they fail to break any world records, they even failed to break the vast majority of their own National Records. Given how much faster the women were compared to their times outside of that race, it should have been impossible for the Chinese men to have failed to break their national records had the track indeed been short.

Wang ended up being a Gold Medalist outside of China.