An Amateur Calls out Elite runners

The Biw wrote:

I think people are looking way too much into the religion aspect with this article. I'm assuming as a defense mechnisism for not agreeing with the article.

Agreed. I just this anti-God crowd incredibly militant and intolerant of Christian beliefs. There is no doubt that there are plenty of Christian college coaches out there who excel at their jobs and don't judge or preach to their runners.

You atheists need to chill.

Good post, Streetlight, but I didn't see that from the blogger. I saw bitterness, anger that he wasn't an elite, and snap judgments on elite runners without any documentation or evidence that they are jerks.

He also said elites are not religious (what does that have to do with anything, and how does he know?), and not deserving of what they've earned. He made another snap judgment that they don't donate to charity or take part in worthy causes, again with no documentation. Not only did he not have any documentation, he didn't even talk to these elites face-to-face.

His favorite line -- "God willing" -- after most paragraphs got real old. His writing is really bad as is the writing of his former teammates on this thread.

Translated:

"I'm the humblest humble who ever humbled. I'm SO MUCH BETTER than all those others who aren't humble. I'm like, the KING of humble. You guys WISH you were as humble as I am. Humble is the new proud and I can kick your ass at being humble."

He's going to regret writing that. He seems like a good egg, but he's got more growing up to do. It's good that his injury has helped him grow up a little, but he's got a LOT more growing up to do before he's done. When he's done, this is going to be EMBARASSING. Poor kid.

I won't speak for others. however I perceived the author to look down on non Christian runners. in my opinion that sentiment is clear.

I don't mind people have Christian beliefs at all, but don't condescend to others because they don't share your belief (directed at article author)

if you can't understand why that is so offensive, I'm sorry.

Wondering in the West wrote:

Good post, Streetlight, but I didn't see that from the blogger. I saw bitterness, anger that he wasn't an elite, and snap judgments on elite runners without any documentation or evidence that they are jerks.

He also said elites are not religious (what does that have to do with anything, and how does he know?), and not deserving of what they've earned. He made another snap judgment that they don't donate to charity or take part in worthy causes, again with no documentation. Not only did he not have any documentation, he didn't even talk to these elites face-to-face.

His favorite line -- "God willing" -- after most paragraphs got real old. His writing is really bad as is the writing of his former teammates on this thread.

Sorry, my post was more regarding Rojo's response to the "kernel of truth" guy who thought running in college was a waste of time, and not so much to the blogger.

I think the blogger is just frustrated that he couldn't make it as an elite runner when he is in his mind so obviously deserving of being one. Not only does has he dedicated himself to the sport, he also gives back to his community, has a close relationship with god, high moral standard, etc... In his mind, he is among the most deserving of becoming elite.

I think that his core beliefs are threatened when he sees elite runners of loose moral character, less dedication, lack of community involvement achieve high level's of success.

His injury is just the process of him realizing what the rest of us have realized: life isn't fair.

why is that annoying to you?

Thanks for the clarification and you're spot-on with the blogger: He's very resentful of what's happened to his running life. Too bad because I don't think the sub-elite life (winning regional road races, focusing on your own PR's, running well in all-comers meets, running for a club, etc.) is something to be ashamed of.

I know a couple former collegiate football players, who were cut in NFL or minor league (Canadian Football League, even Arena League) camps. While disappointed, they never thought the respective leagues owed them anything or that the guys who made it ahead of them were less deserving than themselves.

Some day the blogger will realize what you said: life isn't fair. If it was, we'd all be elite at something.

It's a slow day in the world of running when a quote like that makes it onto the front page of letsrun.

What a piece of sh&t you are, Clay.

I have seen this before, nerdy distance runner in high school, awkward... some how good at the high school level. Get to college, isn't that good anymore and is just left with the awkwardness... Extremely bitter, running didn't make you weird and not able to talk to girls... that is just who you are!

Robert,

First, I would just like to say that I don't agree with this college kid's creative writing essay, but I do disagree with the prevailing argument that has arisen against his pathetic attention seeking rant.

I respect your opinion but I do believe that the current US "sub-elite" culture (if that's a term/thing)is for the most part very self-centered,selfish and egotistical. I will admit that I was part of it and no different.

I know so many of my peers who graduated college saying that they were going to run who a few years. Many of them moved to Flagstaff, Colorado, Portland and plan to work odd jobs (ie. not use their college degree), live off their parents money til they "make" it to the Olympics (or more likely some road race) or they are in their thirties and broke from all the craft beer they've been drinking (this last part is somewhat a joke).

I feel that I've been more successful then them continuing to work towards my degree in graduate school, work a job, save money, and run whatever races I want than they are. It's also possible that I enjoy running more than them, especially since they have made it their "job" to run. I never wanted running to be my job. I always wanted it to remain as fun as it was in high school and college.

Furthermore, I believe that saving money for retirement and working are important. Just as important as high school/college/post-collegiate running were to me.

Finally, (and this is a rhetorical question) do you really believe that you can only be a successful runner (maybe even an elite runner) if you put your academic/professional life on hold? I may be wrong but I think that you can.

Sorry for the long rant,

Neil.

Be like Pre - I did ok in college - not great - but OK. 3:41 1500 - competitive - but not great. Top 5 in XC in the conference in a major conference. Again, competitive, but not great. I don't think it accurate to state I did not fulfill my obligations to my teammates, the school and the coach, but it is accurate to state that at the end of four years I was really anxious to go on to other pursuits, and running for any other reason that fitness made no sense.

I really did not want to be on scholarship, but home life was complicated - wealthy, but very abusive father who did not help at all with school (meaning financial aid meant sitting out from school for at least a year to establish my own income) - hospitalized divorced mother with no home - I did feel a constant pressure to live up to my scholarship obligations, thought highly of my coach, and in this vein I think saw it through. But yes, I certainly did not obtain the heights that I likely could have. Probably the best thing to do then was to not go to college out of high school at all, qualify for financial aid of some kind, and go to college like a regular student. But what does anyone know at age 18, especially with not much guidance?

I don't agree with the tone of the original poster. To be good at running or anything else you better darn well be single minded, and because the sport does not pay at all I think it understandable people are frustrated. A dose of reality kindly stated would help. But his post does raise the issue as to whether Division 1 athletics makes sense for good students (and yes, I went on to succeed at a very top graduate school at a level much higher than I ever did at any level in running). My view is that it doesn't, especially in today's knowledge based marketplace. Absurdly competitive as it may be, the young people we hire in my business didn't spend their college years running or playing at some other non-revenue sport. One of my hires was an All State XC runner, but realized in his first year of college that the college running gig made no sense. It was a wise judgment for him. The people we hire have excellent academics, internships and work experiences, over the top, really. I understand the criticism that this kind of thing takes away one's youth, but the reality of today's economy is much harsher than back in my day. Food for thought.

I'm assuming Clay pissed in your corn flakes this morning.

rojo wrote:

This clealry was a great QOD as the thread iss 6 pages long.

Funny because this message board is absolutely NOTORIOUS for instantly deleting all threads that attempt to examine the existence of God. Even intelligent polite discussions on the matter are brutally squashed by the moderators.

And yet here we have your quote of the day coming from some religious "gentleman" that basically FORCES the discussion of the validity of conviction without evidence.

Well, at least we get to have our deletion-free discussion about the validity of faith and indoctrination that we've been wanting to have for all these years.

san leandro bay trail wrote:

thank you, seriously. saved me the trouble of even starting to read it.

Greentexter wrote:

stopped reading when he started talking about runners' lack of God.

It's unortunate for you that your bigotry is that strong--especially considering that the article wasn't even about faith or God, it was just mentioned in passing.

Why are certain posters claiming that running and academic achievement are somehow mutually exclusive? Both can be attained simultaneously. I enjoyed running in college, I kept up with my studies, and I had a good time. Running was certainly one of the highlights of my college experience, without it I would have been pretty damn bored.

I find it strange, the criticism here towards "Sub Elites", who do you think make up the majority of the Oly Trials? Not everyone has contracts... What is so wrong with people chasing after a dream, something that they are passionate about?

Way too many people go through life without having a true passion, if you quit after college or after high school then running is not your passion.

This kid let other things fall short in his life and focused entirely on running, when he failed, he became bitter.

There are a lot of us out there that still have that fire, still dream... still believe! The only difference between a true elite and a sub elite is the mindset, wether it be belief in your own abilities, or your ability to make running your entre focus.

Would this twerp be complaining if he had run 13:16 instead of 14:16?

Doubt it...

Look a guys like david torrence? struggled for a year or two out of college? now hes a solid elite, Will Lear? hes 30! just now finding his own groove!

My nightmare? a 9-5 job where I don't get to spend much time with my family, and zero passion for anything. I am going to die one day, I have seen my father make an awesome living, full on top 5 richest zip codes in the US.... Divorced though, heavy drinker, no passion... hates his job, wishes he would have done something he liked. I don't want that.

I want my dream, and I will do anything to obtain it, that includes drop kicking clay in the process!

You can still do that and work.

I'm not against sub-elites and some of my friends did the meanial jobs while running tons 2/3 years out of college. They called themselves "running bums." They hold great jobs today.

My problem is sub-elites complaining that they're not elites. I find nothing wrong with chasing your dreams and if you're not elite, competing well in local road races (or national road races), running for a good local club, running open X-C and track meets. There's no shame in that.

The blogger acts like his life is in ruins because he's not an elite, and in turn acts like none of the elites (except Hall and Meb) earned their elite status.

letsbang wrote:

Why are certain posters claiming that running and academic achievement are somehow mutually exclusive? Both can be attained simultaneously. I enjoyed running in college, I kept up with my studies, and I had a good time. Running was certainly one of the highlights of my college experience, without it I would have been pretty damn bored.

I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I did pretty well with my academics.

I my main motivation for running was the scholarship the school gave me. For me, this made running more of a job throughout college than an enjoyable hobby. It seems like you enjoyed running more than this.

As far as academics, I did well, just not in a very marketable major. When I entered college at age 18, I was young and lacked any idea of what I wanted out of life. The members on the team, the coaches, and the athletic advisers all pushed for 'easy' majors to fit around practice and traveling.

I ended up choosing an easy major because that's what everyone else was telling me to do. I know that was stupid, but I was a kid, and I didn't have enough experiences to know better.

I wised up about half-way through my junior year, but it was too late to change majors. I just finished out my last year and graduated. (To anyone saying I should have just switched majors. That would require an extra year of school, and I couldn't attend the school without the scholarship.)

It would have been nice to do something I was more passionate about, but running was how I was going to pay for school so I stuck with it.

I've since moved on with other plans. I don't regret my college experience. Looking back I realize how young and unprepared I was to make such big decisions. My situation is one of those 'grass is greener on the other side' situations.