5k ftw wrote:
Who could win one Olympic sprint/mid/distance event and place best in all the others? Obviously a 5k runner or a strength based 1500m runner.
Back to Aouita.
He has an Olympic and/or World Championship medal in the 800, 1500 and 5,000. Plus ran well at 10,000.
Webb was a miler and competed well in the 800, 1500, 5000 and had a good 10,000 time.
Geb was the one long distance runner who medaled in an indoor 1500 and held the marathon world record.
Bad Wigins wrote:No need for polynomials
yes there is
i asked you to find best curve fit for the numbers i gave, calculate inflexion point of 2nd derivative of speed on the unnecessarily stated assumption you have mathematica or maple
if you don't have either then please say so & don't offer me pyrite instead
Close call between the 800 and Mile. A guy that's a good miler or 800 runner has abilities that transfer to other sports. When you get way up into the distances you have guys that are the typical LR skinny runner geeks that weigh about as much as their girlfriends.
If a guy is good at either distance they can move up and be deadly, or even move down on occasion if the team needs them to. They are versatile, where true "distance runners" are not.
ventolin^3 wrote:you of course will get better fits withs power/exponential/log curves but i'm not spending a week trying to take 2nd differential of those & solve for y'' = 0
correction
of course any of these without any other terms in best fit equation can't be solved for 0 as no raised power can = 0
scuzz!!! wrote:
if there were 1 distance that shows overall running talent, what would it be?
yes, i realize there are certain runners that "own" certain distances for example paul tergat is the best marathoner ever, and hicham el geurrouj is the best miler ever. im not tryin to compare apples and oranges, because i realizes that everyone has their own distance that they specialize in.
if all the elite runners we're put into 1 distance, 1 race, which showed the overall ability of the elite candidates; id have to say it would be the mile distance
(yes, i guess i am insinuating the hicham el geurrouj is the best runner ever)
if they we're all competing in the mile, yes hicham el geurrouj would win because yes, he is indeed a miler; but i think this is one true distance that shows a runners overall talent; physiologically speaking, this is also the distance the phys ed teahers across the country use to show overall fitness.
what do you think is the distance that shows EVERYBODYS overall ability?
The 800m obviously. The experts say it's 50/50. And think about Aouita.
Somewhere around 1500 to 5000, but as as others have indicated it really depends on what are your criteria for "overall ability."
For sprinters it's the 200, or maybe even 300 m. But those who are world class or national class will flame out past 400 or 500. So does that account for overall ability?
Likewise, the 800 is a brutal event no doubt but I've seen 1:48-49 runners struggle to break 5:50 pace for 8K.
The really great ones are like Rod Dixon, who did it all 3:33 1500, 13:17 5000, an Olympic medal in the 1500, and NYC Marathon win in 2:08:59. Plus he had a long career.
In the modern era--or any era--Geb would be the GOAT. Good 1500 speed (3:33) and a 2:04 marathoner. Are there any sub 3:30/3:50 for 1500 mile, sub 12:50 5000, and sub 2:05 marathoners? Maybe Mo Farah someday.
Kind of taking this on a different tangent, but for distance running the 1500-5000 sets the groundwork for others. Plus some of the really fast ones can do a sub 50 in the 400, and in the 10s for 100 m.
ventolin^3 wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:No need for polynomialsyes there is
i asked you to find best curve fit for the numbers i gave, calculate inflexion point of 2nd derivative of speed on the unnecessarily stated assumption you have mathematica or maple
if you don't have either then please say so & don't offer me pyrite instead
Precise inflection points would tell you nothing. I suppose you'd go around saying they were some kind of magic optimal distance, that humans were meant to run exactly that far. That's why I elliptically pointed out that they're as arbitrary as the choice of which graph to pick them from.
I agree with Bad Wigins about the 800. You need to have speed but you have to have endurance as well. It takes a mix of both abilities. It's my favorite race to watch as well--long enough for strategy but short enough to be dramatic.
Bad Wigins wrote:Precise inflection points would tell you nothing...
thanks for nothing
if you don't have maple or mathematica, then say so
Bad Wigins wrote:
The warrior's distance is 800 meters. You can run fast but still be big and powerful wielding a spear or axe.
An 800 runner can easily outrun any sprinter with only a few seconds head start, and outrun any distance runner who doesn't have a much bigger head start. Juantorena would only need 2 seconds to stay ahead of Usain Bolt for good. But Wilson Kipsang would need probably about 15 seconds to escape from Juantorena.
The important role of running in battle is to pursue or escape. Nobody charges into battle except in the movies, they move slowly and organized. But when the enemy is defeated, then it is time for the enemy to run, and 800 meters is the critical distance. The victor will not pursue farther than that because it disrupts his line and makes it vulnerable to counterattack. So the 800 runners in the defeated army will escape, and the 800 runners in the winning army will kill or capture the most fleeing enemies.
It is true that a distance runner could eventually run down an 800 runner, but then what? When Wilson Kipsang catches Juantorena, El Caballo will just beat him up. Overall ability involves weighing more than a woman.
I love this post. It's good and amusing.