discouraged hs girl

lglr wrote:

What do you suggest I do during the summer then? I have tried aqua jogging before. I can not get my heart rate up when aqua jogging. All it does for me is tire out my legs and nothing for my aerobic system. I see that a lot of great runners also swim, so thats why I have been doing some of that. I also like the elliptical. I can not get my heart rate up on a stationary bike either unless I am on a very high gear, and I do not like to do that because I would be using the bike for easy base "mileage", and I feel that tearing up my legs while trying to accomplish that is counterproductive.

Don't worry so much about heart rate. Doing aqua jogging and biking is not going to get your heart rate as high as during running, but that doesn't mean it isn't helping you. Aqua jogging especially is fantastic cross training. The fact that it is tiring out your legs means it is doing something for you.

As 'just the facts' said, you need to be doing some strength training if you aren't already.

I notice you have three workouts plus a long run. This is summer training, focus should be on building a base, not on intense, workout-heavy weeks. As someone said, cut out that 400m interval workout. That is not needed at all. Instead just get in some mileage that day. If I were you I'd probably only do one workout a week in the summer - alternating between a fartlek and a tempo run. Instead of swimming do aqua jogging - need to make sure you are working hard while aqua jogging though, I think the best way to aqua jog is by doing a fartlek in the pool.

I know aqua jogging is supposed to be great cross training. I did it while I got injured. I worked so hard in the pool... every day was a hard workout. I was trying to maintain fitness while I was injured and I heard that aqua jogging was my best option. I noticed that I never got my heart rate up, though. After the three weeks I spent cross training via aqua jog in the pool instead of running, I gained two minutes in my 3 mile time. It was horrible, I may as well just have done nothing for that lay off. I was very disappointed, and I honestly will never aqua jog for cross training ever again.

What was your mileage last year? It's safe to increase your mileage by 5mpw each year. Also it might be beneficial to do less cross training and replace it with higher mileage. Many elite hs girls do 60mpw (there is a girl in my training group who's going to do 55mpw and she runs right around 5:00).

The other thing I noticed is that you seem to be lacking speed. 10:37 is relatively better than 2:15 and 5:01. But if you work on your speed and get your 800pr down to 2:12-2:13, you'll break 5:00 and probably run under 10:30 as well.

To me it looks pretty simple. Increase your mileage by 5mpw, even possibly 10mpw if you reduce some of the cross training, during this summer before xc, then really work on your speed for track.

Lastly get out of your head, you'll get a break through. Before the end of this track season my mile pr was almost 2 years old. Once I got a small pr (0.75 second pr), I took 4 more seconds off of it the following weekend. It's in your head, especially when you're on the cusp of going sub 17 in xc and sub 5 in track.

Good Luck

I do not have athletes complete formal strength training on easy days. We do them after hard days. I have found that easy days are for recovery, so why mix in something that is not easy. I believe in a lot of strengthening such as cleans, modified squats, lunges, and many things on balance boards. In addition, during off and early season we do a lot of hills, steps (they are readily available on a college campus in town), and body weight drills on days we do not complete formal weight training. Our weight routine takes no longer than 30 minutes and is set up like circuit training so that is slightly cardiovascular as well.

This is something you should take to your coach and mutually investigate a plan.

My mileage last year was 50. I peaked at 59 but found that I felt awful that week. Do you think I should run in the mornings instead of the cross training I said?

I agree. I like to keep hard days hard and easy days easy.

Try Hard Go Far wrote:

Lastly get out of your head, you'll get a break through.

This. Also remember you are just going into your junior year and are already a top runner. Probably just staying consistent with your training, not trying to change things up so much to make a breakthrough, will get you to where you want to be over the next two years. Consistent injury-free training is what makes people improve. In your training I would just recommend during the summer focus less on workouts and more on building a bigger base through higher mileage if you can do it and stay healthy, or doing longer cross training session would work too. Doing so many workouts during the summer will probably make you slower in the fall, because you are trading endurance for intensity now, when you'll be getting plenty of intensity during the season, so you'll miss out on some of that summer endurance-building that you need as a base for the intensity you get during the season. Just do some hill work and some tempo work during the summer. And do an occasional fartlek if you want.

Pretty good post but my guess is you are not a girl. You would be the third confirmed female here and that is too. Many for this site.

Anyways, I don't even know where to start but there is so much wrong with this program. You are not trying to be in top form year round but are going for one solitary peak performance 5 months from now. This training in June is not conducive toward that. You will be fit to start the season but where do you go? Where is the periodization?

You are doing some form of intensity every day. Tempo on Monday, a moderate tempo on Tuesday (7:10 is not recovery pace), Wednesday intervals, Saturday long run. If you are going to run in college your summer has too much intensity. Unless you plan on putting a mileage block in August and September and forgo some early season races.

If you are looking for long term development and want to run in college you need to just run. Put in a block of running and you just enjoy hitting the trails. No pressure, just love running. It's likely the intensity is the cause of injury more than 6 mile runs.

Not to be harsh but it sounds like you took this training from a runners world article. Even so you have done well off this type of training so why change it?

As always you should talk to your coach, they know you better than anyone here.

Why are you asking wannabe LR coaches and not speaking with your own coach about this? You come off as yet another HS kid who thinks they know more than their coach bc she can look up workouts on some website. Training is so much more than thinking up a bunch of workouts and if your coach got you this far, how are a bunch of unproven and unknown LE coaches going to help you get better.

Btw, your supposed PRs and finishes at State make you pretty easy to look up on MileSplit or Dyestat.

Why would I lie about my gender? That is just stupid. But what I have taken from this article is that I need more volume and less intensity. Thank you.

I have trained and raced well on both high mileage and low...but when I succeeded off the lower mileage I had one long slow run during the summer (which seem to set it up).

As far as getting injured off high mileage - I certainly understand your concern. I would say - make sure your diet is good - many injuries are diet related (drink milk, eat fruits and veggies)...maybe even have your blood tested now just to see if you have any issues (low iron etc.). If everything looks good - here is what I would suggest.

Any time you make changes to training they should be gradual. Most really good runners (and you are definitely in that class) have a difficult time running slow because you are so efficient at faster paced running. The slow running seems very pointless...when I was in college I ran with the CC National champ on our team - he ran some of the slowest recovery days ever - us younger guys did not run with him because he was so slow...but what he was doing was fat burning. This is what I would recommend you try. As I said above my summer had 1 long, but slow run that set up my whole best season ever on lower mileage. My friends would go 7:30 pace for 14 miles - I hated that run...to me it was so slow all I could think about was food, and wanting to stop = which is when you know your are doing the run right...the pace is so much slower than you are used to it forces your body to switch from glycogen burning to fat burning. For you - I would say try to go 8:00+ pace - go for time in the beginning...like for 1 hour = that will only get you 7.5 miles but that is enough for the first few attempts at this.

2) after you learn to go slower on your long run...your easy days need to be done at about this same pace - to help you recovery + to burn fat. The cross-training you do is okay (I have done cycling, rowing, swimming) but nothing is like running...these other activities can be good to reduce injuries, stress, and burnout...but they don't need to be done too hard...but truthfully, you want to be a better runner - you need to run. The very best runners run twice a day. Try doing one or two double per week - even if you only go 2 miles...when I first added doubles within the last year I would just do 4 miles...the doubling is the benefit, not the distance.

3) change all you hard intervals days to tempo runs...these are the most important workout you can do to get better (especially if you are doing the one long, slow run)...but these need to be done right. Do not race them...Do not worry about the overall time. the goal is simply to run miles at an efficient pace = what is that pace?

your body and brain are the best ways to determine the tempo pace, not some form chart. When your breathing starts to get heavy, you are going too fast - slow down. WHen you brain tells you, you are going to have trouble holding this pace for the distance you were shooting for - your are going too fast - slow down. I think the range for most runners on the tempo is actually quite large. If I can race at 5:00 pace - then my tempo pace of efficiency might be anywhere from 5:20-5:50 (most of us mistaken try to run the faster of the range when we should start at the higher end and gradually come down during the tempo)...it is also fine to kick it in at the last 1/2 mile or so...but don't get concerned about your overall time and try to compare to your last tempo...weather changes, how you feel changes, etc. As long as your are putting in the work (controlled work) at the proper feels right pace, you will improve. Also don't be afraid the vary the tempo pace - one day I may run most of my tempo at 5:50 but go longer (like 8-10 miles) another time 5-6 miles at 5:25-5:35).

you are already very fast...so you cannot have been doing too much wrong, but if you want to tweek it - only gradually increase your mileage, but mostly decrease your intensity now (during the summer) so when you come back to intervals in the fall they will be easier and faster. We all want to interval ourselves into great shape, but the real work toward improving fitness and making those leaps in racing happen during the off-season where we build our base (slower paced running, doubles, and some tempo). Think of intervals as sweets in your diet - they are great and add a lot, but use them sparingly..the bulk of you running meal should be slower volume. I coaches a high school state champ with very similar times to yours and she also trained the way you do...the idea of running slower to get faster was a hard sell. It took me years and years of running myself to accept it. It does work. All training does not have to be hard or fast.

I love getting advice. One thing I don't like about this website is that people throw around insults a lot. I didn't come here to start drama. I just wanted some insight. Thank you.

4 crosstrain days are too many. Consider a day off before your long run. Replace the cross train days with some easy conversational miles. You have a lot of quality for summer. I'd do one workout a week or run a road race. I think you need more quantity, which you can borrow from your crosstrain efforts. If you get tired, take a second day off. No doubles.

Thank you for some detailed and applicable training advice. I will consider all of this

lglr wrote:

Do you think what I have right now is a good plan? Which example that I provided do you think is better?

Yes. Keep doing what you feel is the best for you.

Don't pay attention to anything else.

lglr wrote:

I feel like I need to find a way to become more physically able. I have a very high discomfort tolerance and I thrive on the pain felt during a hard race. I think becoming more fit/ in shape is what I need to work on.

Well then keep working on that.

you welcome and good luck

I just wanted to clarify something after reading my own post - when I say I run 5:00 pace (I don't mean I am a 5:00 miler who trains at at 5:20-5:50 pace). I race, say 5k+ at 5:00 pace.

so your 5k pace is what about 5:30 - so your tempo range would be in the 5:50-6:20 ballpark +/- 5 seconds. Again it is just whatever pace "feels" right. When you do a tempo right you actually should feel refreshed afterwards - not worn out.

and one other special thing to look for - when I am really listening to my body during the tempo and doing the hardest thing (actually slowing down when I should) I have noticed that I will naturally speed back up about 1/2 latter without even realizing (because I am back into my efficiency zone and will be going faster by end and feeling better than I was early when I was hurting and pushing the pace).

What's the mileage of your weekly schedule that you're currently running right now? I counted it and thought it looked like it was 45mpw

I was going to recommend taking a day off from running but you already do that. Why don't you knock out some of your cross training if it's making you tired.

The mileage in that week was only 29 miles if I counted correctly and assuming you didn't do any extra miles warming up for your quality days. You only had 2/3 quality days in there so the quality workouts aren't being done too frequently.

Are you getting enough sleep and are you tired?

Why don't you try taking a full day off all "working out?" Maybe you can just do nothing on Sunday and have light weeks too. Three harder weeks followed by a week with just normal running and only one quality day.

You're only a soon to be Junior and you have time to improve. Your times are good enough for nice colleges anyways and you will most likely have a lot of scholarship offers to choose from. Good luck!