How are you supposed to run this workout. I understand this is about maintaing speed during base but also about not killing yourself. Any information on pace and rest?
How are you supposed to run this workout. I understand this is about maintaing speed during base but also about not killing yourself. Any information on pace and rest?
current 3k pace, not PR 3k pace, with 200 jog. if it feels easy, run the jogs faster, not the reps
Pace: Current Mile pace
Recovery: 200m jog
for each 200m rep, If you are using a track, find out which proper 200m segment has a better benefit from the wind since you are trying to work on running economy, not to hammer a workout.
.............................. wrote:
current 3k pace, not PR 3k pace, with 200 jog. if it feels easy, run the jogs faster, not the reps
Wrong.
RunWild wrote:
Pace: Current Mile pace
Recovery: 200m jog
for each 200m rep, If you are using a track, find out which proper 200m segment has a better benefit from the wind since you are trying to work on running economy, not to hammer a workout.
Wrong.
Q: What workouts do we do?
A: Once a week meet for a tempo run on the track of four to six miles. The other workout is four to six by 1200m to 2000m with one lap jog, OR 16 to 24 by 150m to 300m with FULL RECOVERY - that's a really slow jog. Walk if you have to. You determine what you want to do; these are just recommendations.
.
Q: What about those 200s? Why are we doing speed work now?
A: The only way to run fast is to, well, run fast. The time to start is now. Let's say the group is running 200s. Just go out and run them. FULL RECOVERY. The whole point is to train the neuromuscular system, to concentrate on the mechanics of running - you know it: forward lean, arm carriage, knees up and out, heels clipping your butt, stride length and turnover. I've always been amazed at the number of runners that think that they can "get speed" during the last three weeks of the season. It doesn't work that way.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4051072&page=0Sample paces:
Shorter repeats aka neuromuscular training
16 x 150 accel 50, sprint 50, stride 50
12 x 200 accel 100m, sprint 50, stride 50
10 x 300 accel 100m, sprint 100m. stride 100m
Full recovery between each. slow jog or walk if you have to. The objective here is to work on the mechanics of running fast and to hit close to top end, then stride out to the finish. It's OK for you to run these hard enough that you feel a good buzz after the session. Again, you are trying to teach your body how to sprint, and by extension, to run faster.
Might want to revise terminology a bit. "Full recovery" means 6-10 minutes.
Hey could you give me the paces you told in that older thread please?
If you want my opinion on exact paces for you to do then answer me thes questions.
1) How fast can you normally run 10x400m and with what rest?
2) How fast/far are your normal tempo runs?
3) How fast could you normally do 200m repeats, lets say 10-16 of them?
4) how fast can you normally do mile repeats? How many of them? How much rest?
5) What are your best times?
Read more:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4051072&page=0#ixzz32qnr31bT
1) I think I have done 68-70 for 8x400,2x200 with the 2's in probably 28-32 with 2:00 rest I think- It may have been more I don't remember.
2) 3 mi at 5:36 (fastest) to 5:44 (slowest I think). And I have done 6.3 mi once at 5:50 but have only run a longer run that quick once.
3) haven't done straight 200 repeats, but based off the mile repeat +200s workout I'd say probably anywhere from 28 at the fastest to 32 at the slowest
4) Have done average 5:06 av (5:05,5:06,5:07 I think) for 3xmile 5:00 R on road, 8x200 at 31 1:00-2:00 R (cant really remember) on dirt track
5)800-2:07
1600-4:40
3200-10:12
Also, I just got back to running from my week of Xtraining and am feeling slower than before the break. Obviously I should be considering I am running by myself now and took the break, but I'm feeling like I'm working just as hard doing my runs at 6:40-6:50 pace (only up to 5 mi mind you) than before when I could do 6:25 or 6:30 for up to double that sometimes. I did do about 3 hours of cross training last week in my first full week back of running (like 22 miles or something). I also got a deep cough during my break and that is still lingering a little. Could the cross training be the cause of my almost-sluggishness or is it the cough or is it just natural and should go away eventually? I did what felt like about tempo effort mile during my 5 mile run this morning on a slight uphill dirt road and was only going at 5:45-5:55 average probably. Also when should I start doing the workouts? Should I be running easier on my easy days?
adsfasdf wrote:
Might want to revise terminology a bit. "Full recovery" means 6-10 minutes.
To a sprinter, yes. To a good distance runner, no. It's an observed fact that your reps won't get any faster if you lengthen the reps more than about, say, 2-4min of jogging for 200s. In fact you may get slower and stiffen up.
I know a good British international from the late 80s/90s who could run a faster 400 as the second or third one in a set than he would in a 400m race.
Give any group of distance boys that session, and they will do what Malmo wants. After each rep they will walk until they get their breath back, jog a bit to keep loose, and be springing along nicely in time for the next rep. They will not take 15 separate 8-minute naps.
How do "wrong" and "these are just recommendations" coexist in your world, Malmo?
Well,nah... wrote:
How do "wrong" and "these are just recommendations" coexist in your world, Malmo?
The OP's pace was way way off, so it was clearly wrong. Recommendations still have guidelines. So yeah, the advice was sound. Why does everyone got to be so negative all the time?
Thanks for the insight guys. I was definitely planning on doing them slower. Glad I posted to find out I was about to do it wrong haha. Btw, been doing malmo 6 weeks and have already had significant improvement(first time doubling). Thanks again!
Malmo is there any kind of a base you need before you start SOM or do you hop right into it?
Any mileage previous is fine. There is no certain amount you have to run for s.o.m. just follow the plan based on your own capabilities
I thought it meant when one is fully recovered, regardless of time?
I've never seen him say correct to someone's interpretation of him, but if you read the advice, you will see the word 'sprint', which means a lot faster than mile pace for that portion of the 200. The general guide is by feel, not by mechanical pace, but for the speed, as neuromuscular work, it is supposed to be hard. Others, just appreciate that a former American record holder is providing good, helpful and free advice here.
Malmo once said "correct" to my interpretation of one of his training comments. I think it was in 2007 or 2008.
Malmo
There are SO many questions about The Summer of Malmo, every year. Have you EVER thought of turning it^ into a book?
if you need a book written to hold your hand through explanations of SOM, you are waaaaaay overthinking it.
aquafina wrote:
Malmo
There are SO many questions about The Summer of Malmo, every year. Have you EVER thought of turning it^ into a book?
aquafina wrote:
Malmo
There are SO many questions about The Summer of Malmo, every year. Have you EVER thought of turning it^ into a book?
Hahha good joke.
SoM is often over analyzed. It is meant to be an extremely simple plan to get you prepared for the more intense training later on. Analyze your workouts in the fall, not in the summer, if want to analyze something.