Went from 16:50 5K to a 26:00 8K in a Month

HighMilerMileage wrote:

There was NOTHING indicating I could run this fast.

Was the course measured correctly?

The race has been run since 1998 and I know a lot of strong runners who I respect and saw there times. It is a flat road race with a final uphill but still... I wouldnt think I could run this on a track.

I beat a 2:40 marathoner and lost to an older guy 6 yrs out of college who holds his colleges 5K school record... He races with a local Track Club

If the course was accurate, then you may already have the answer to your question. Slow pace plus pounding the end of runs sometimes is actually not a bad approach to training.

It is also possible that you respond well to racing.

I suggest you keep doing what you're doing, find a July 4 race, and see what happens. And report back.

letsrun internet coaching wrote:

It is also possible that you respond well to racing.

I suggest you keep doing what you're doing, find a July 4 race, and see what happens. And report back.

I was planning on training only for the 4th of July but decided last second to jump into this local race today.

The race was today and my legs were sore because I played hard pick-up basketball Friday night (don't play a lot). Maybe I just felt like I had nothing to lose.. not sure.

My mileage ahead looks like 80,80,85,85,90,85,70 (race).

I slow down the pace BIG TIME if I don't feel good which has allowed me to stay at this mileage in the first place.

I will definitely follow-up with the 5K

HighMilerMileage wrote:

letsrun internet coaching wrote:

It is also possible that you respond well to racing.

I suggest you keep doing what you're doing, find a July 4 race, and see what happens. And report back.

I was planning on training only for the 4th of July but decided last second to jump into this local race today.

The race was today and my legs were sore because I played hard pick-up basketball Friday night (don't play a lot). Maybe I just felt like I had nothing to lose.. not sure.

My mileage ahead looks like 80,80,85,85,90,85,70 (race).

I slow down the pace BIG TIME if I don't feel good which has allowed me to stay at this mileage in the first place.

I will definitely follow-up with the 5K

Consider keeping your mileage < 80 miles. Getting greedy after a good race is great way to end up injured in a few weeks.

If you "jumped in" meaning ran bandit, this time does not stand, man.

I didn't bandit. I jumped in as in payed the entrance fee in the morning and raced after deciding Saturday night. I placed second and received a prize.

Internet coach.. the thing is I was planning on that progression with or without the 5 miler yesterday... running a fast 4th of July 5K is nice but I would like to run really fast in a race in August (10 miler).

Also... where does 26 put in with respect to other races? What "should" I be able to do for a 5K in the first place? I really don't know where this time puts me except maybe a lowly walk-on for Div1?

HighMilerMileage wrote:

Also... where does 26 put in with respect to other races? What "should" I be able to do for a 5K in the first place? I really don't know where this time puts me except maybe a lowly walk-on for Div1?

Nice race!

Here are two sources for comp times:

Daniels VDOT:

- 5k about 15:50

McMillan:

- 5k of 15:47

HighMilerMileage wrote:

I didn't bandit. I jumped in as in payed the entrance fee in the morning and raced after deciding Saturday night. I placed second and received a prize.

Internet coach.. the thing is I was planning on that progression with or without the 5 miler yesterday... running a fast 4th of July 5K is nice but I would like to run really fast in a race in August (10 miler).

Also... where does 26 put in with respect to other races? What "should" I be able to do for a 5K in the first place? I really don't know where this time puts me except maybe a lowly walk-on for Div1?

As long as you treat your plan going forward as numbers you'd like to hit, not need to hit, perhaps you'll be okay.

26:00 for 5 miles means you probably could run 15:30 or better for 5k. If you're in HS, that is a very good time and I would think that you could do better than walk on at quite a few D1 schools.

Running a 5k on July 4 would probably be a good step toward a good 10 miler in August.

if that's real and the course was measured correctly, then you can look right to your mileage log to see that it was precisely at the end of five weeks of much higher mileage that you had a huge drop. That is exactly what it takes for me when I move to high(er) mileage to get over the soreness and tiredness and adapt and improve dramatically. Usually, improvements start to happen immediately, then soreness and tiredness slow you down for another 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 weeks and then the pr.

yougottabekiddingme:

Thanks for the links. I'm assuming those would be on the track? What is faster to run on.. a flat out and back on the roads with race flats or running on the track with spikes? The road race wasnt 100% flat but it was close.

letsrun internet coaching:

They are definitely "planned".. This week I had 80 planned and only hit high 70s. For example today I had a 8/4 double and the paces were 9 min and 8:30 min respectively. So you can see I am willing to go slow and long for recovery.

I am going to be a sophomore in college so not in High School, but I have thought of walking on my team (mid-level Div 1 at a big school). I was injured for a year and a half and couldnt start running again until about this time last year.. The difference is I SWITCHED my form from heel striking to forefront striking... I think it has made a big difference in my potential to run fast and resilience to training. I went into it very slowly for about 6 months then took 10 weeks off and now I am here.

I don't really want to walk on the team unless I can really make an impact... otherwise I feel like I might as well train on my own like I have been. After looking over results I see a lot of the guys running 27s on the 8K courses so maybe I could walk-on with more training? We never have guys come close to top 25 in big national invites (typically in the 30s is our number one).

jjjjjjjjj

The course is 100% measured correctly and has been raced on by professionals (actually one specific professional that I know of). He holds the course record in 24:4X.

You're 100% right about the 5 weeks thing If you experienced that yourself. I think your comment on soreness/tiredness taking you out of commission is something I am trying to avoid with slower long runs. I do workouts which obviously make me sore (20x200,4xmile,8x800), but the training runs themselves are for aerobic development only.

If you ran 26 flat on the road off mileage, I think you can walk on right now.

As for making an impact -- you can't know that until you try. And running on a college team is an experience you won't get anywhere else.

good luck, this is an inspiring thread. though I was injured from my sophomore year on for many years, this is still going to get me back to my older three per week workout plus the long run schedule.

UPDATE (Long post... wasnt planning on posting so soon):

My calves are still sore and it is 3 days after the race so once again I took it easy (10.5 @ 8:30 pace...32.4 since mon.). I have only iced once so I need to do more of that.

More importantly, I took letsrun internet coaching's advice and emailed the coach yesterday morning. I honestly wasn't expecting a reply for awhile because I have heard rumors that he doesn't get back to people. I was wrong!

He emailed me today asking my status... he wasn't sure if I was a transfer or a student who was already there and didn't go out for the team so I told him I was a student and also let him know I happen to be rooming with a member of the cross country team (This is just dumb luck for the most part).

THEN he asked if I raced with my room mate in high school. I said no and explained to him that I actually took a full year off from school before going to college (I was injured from a stress fracture for that entire year... worked full time).

He has yet to reply but is this a good sign? What do you guys think?

Running for a division 1 school has been a pipe dream of mine since being a freshman in high school. I haven't trained with a team in 2 years so this would be awesome.

jjjjjjjjj

Thanks for the support. My training is 2 workouts per week and a long run. Although a lot of the time a workout will get cancelled cause I do not have time/feeling sore so I will pound a random loop around my house.

A track race is generally considered faster than a road race for the same distance.

Road race distances (even certified) should not be taken as accurate as a track race. The course could have been laid out incorrectly by the race management, or an individual runner may have taken a shorter or longer route (due to other runners, etc.) during the race. You could run a 5k or similar standardized distance on a track and see how that time equates to the 8k/5 mile road race time.

E-mail the coach again and find out what you need to do to walk on the XC team. Tell him your recent race times in track/road/XC races, and he can put that into the proper context. Ask for some recommended workouts for the summer before you return to school in the Fall and work out with the team.

It could be he is checking your story with your roommate. Give him a week or so. If you don't hear from him, send him an e-mail. Persistence without being pesky should be ok. In the meantime, keep doing what you've been doing.

letsrun internet coaching wrote:

It could be he is checking your story with your roommate. Give him a week or so. If you don't hear from him, send him an e-mail. Persistence without being pesky should be ok. In the meantime, keep doing what you've been doing.

Okay, do you think I should jump into another road race this weekend? Add to my resume?

Carl Spackler:

That is my only recent race. The last time I raced was a Feaster five in 17:15 or something which was a joke

So basically you jumped from in the 30-40mpw range up to 70s without a slow build up, and got these results. That's incredible

I am wanting to get my mileage up to smash my XC PRs this year, 5k races. I'm just wondering: did you do most if not all of your training on trails and soft grounds? I ask because there is no way I can run any mileage above 40 on roads because of all of the pounding. And what specific workouts were you doing? Or was all of your runs just easy?

HighMilerMileage wrote:

letsrun internet coaching wrote:

It could be he is checking your story with your roommate. Give him a week or so. If you don't hear from him, send him an e-mail. Persistence without being pesky should be ok. In the meantime, keep doing what you've been doing.

Okay, do you think I should jump into another road race this weekend? Add to my resume?

Carl Spackler:

That is my only recent race. The last time I raced was a Feaster five in 17:15 or something which was a joke

I think you should stick to what you've been doing. If you have a shot at running XC in the fall, you should get plenty of racing then. A race every six weeks (e.g. July 4) or so is okay, but your aim should be to have a solid base of training by the start of school.