If you're interested in the Hadd training and aren't a typical angst-filled LR poster who is a strong candidate for ADHD, leave an e-mail address, and maybe I'll get back to you.
If you're interested in the Hadd training and aren't a typical angst-filled LR poster who is a strong candidate for ADHD, leave an e-mail address, and maybe I'll get back to you.
No angst, no ADHD.
Pete,
Could you post more info regarding the progression of intervals, that you mention, in Phase II of Hadd training. I have been following Phase I very closely since June 1, and am very interested in any additional info you can provide.
Thanks
Why doesn't Hadd give us Joe's name for verification? Does he ever run his goal sub-2:25? Hadd doesn't say.
And why since he says he will coach Joe "without the blood[lactate] tests" doesn't he give Joe a lacate monitor or have him buy one?
And why didn't Hadd follow his own advice after recovering from a serious accident, i.e., start with a long slow build-up.
This is half-baked. He gets some things right but he's often misguided and disorganized.
After a certain base period Hadd training is nothing but junk mileage. See Owen Anderson's books which lay out studies showing that high results can be obtained through fewer miles with more intensity.
drunner26_2 wrote:1. And why since he says he will coach Joe "without the blood[lactate] tests" doesn't he give Joe a lacate monitor or have him buy one?
2. And why didn't Hadd follow his own advice after recovering from a serious accident, i.e., start with a long slow build-up.
1. The 2400 test is a poor man's lactate meter.
2. Do YOU always follow your own advice...?
Yes please JEH, I would like a copy. I am particularly interested in how his later phases of training may differ from the types suggested by Canova in his small booklet on marathon training. Last year I basically started out with something like Hadd's phase I outline followed by Canova's phase II and III, leading to a large marathon PB.
Thanks
drunner26_2 wrote:
Why doesn't Hadd give us Joe's name for verification? Does he ever run his goal sub-2:25? Hadd doesn't say.
And why since he says he will coach Joe "without the blood[lactate] tests" doesn't he give Joe a lacate monitor or have him buy one?
And why didn't Hadd follow his own advice after recovering from a serious accident, i.e., start with a long slow build-up.
This is half-baked. He gets some things right but he's often misguided and disorganized.
After a certain base period Hadd training is nothing but junk mileage. See Owen Anderson's books which lay out studies showing that high results can be obtained through fewer miles with more intensity.
why don't you give your name for verification? privacy, i would guess. same thing for Hadd. notice that most other coaches on here (including Joe Rubio in other current thread) post "Runner A" etc. their athletes did not ask to be part of this discussion; they asked to be coached.
Hadd has explained that he rushed his "recovery" post accident because he wanted to see for himself if it would work. as he noted, it did not.
he gets plenty of things right...i have printed out much of his phase I and phase II training, and you'd be surprised how taught his methodology is, provided you have the patience to see things through.
and since when was Owen Anderson the standard? Last I checked, there are lots of ex-phys guys--i studied under a a few--who believe that 70mpw max for up to half marathon, and 90mpw max for marathoners is ideal. funny, i don't recall most of the elite marathoners in the world adhering to this...so listening to a guy with some letters after his name does not constitute a refutation of training that achieves proven results.
finally, the adherence to Anderson-esque programs during the 80's and early 90's has been indicted countless times on this board as a primary cause for aerobic under-development in american distance runners.
you can knock holes in something all you want; i've argued many times on this board that what works for some does not work for all, and that finding the right training is as much the responsibility of the athlete as it is the coach. know thyself, drunner26_2. there is a best way FOR YOU.
To be clear, JEH wasn't offering to hand out a copy of something.
Zoom,
I've been following Hadd's phase 1 ideas for 16 weeks now and I'll tell you, in 30 years of running I've never felt better. Perhaps I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I realize now that I always did my base work too quickly. Utilizing a heart rate monitor and following Hadd's simple advice I've been running 80 mile weeks rather easily, more so than I can remember. While a race is a bit premature, I've no doubt the next time I lace 'em up and hit the start line sparks will fly. I wholeheartedly recommend you give it a try. In the worst-case scenario you'll end up extremely strong aerobically.
Monty
Pete, out of curiosity, will this program work for 1500m specialists?
I know you said you PR'ed at 1500m, but it still seems more geared towards the marathon.
I'll second the thought that you feel better than you have ever felt during phase 1, so good that you feel like you may not be training hard enough. Avoid the temptation to accelerate the pace during this phase. I was running 100-120m per week and felt like I was being lazy because my legs were never sore and I never had that total body/mind fatigue.
Greg,
you wrote "why don't you give your name for verification? privacy, i would guess. same thing for Hadd"
Please understand that when I say I believe the HADD thread was a hoax I am in no way implying it is not a legit approach to training. What bothers me the most about the thread is the absence of any marathon results. Even considering people's privacy you would think that if someone want to take you seriously you should at least post some statistical data for some of the people he trained for the marathon???? You know, a table showing several examples of peoples improvements.
Finally, I want to mention that I had followed a program of 4-months of nothing but easy running (~60-70%) and knocked about a minute off my 5K and 1:20 off my 10K. So I do believe that building base is essential and probably the most significant factor in improvement. The Hadd approach is good. I just think the damn thing is a hoax.
I'd like to see the information on the other phases.
I too would appreciate seeing additional details on Phase II.
MAYBE??? I would think that maybe you JEH is horse shit!Hadd is interesting. We would like it if you would please spill more information, stop being coy. I may have ADD but please just increase our knowledge. Canova is not the answer for sure, maybe the poison!
JEH wrote:
If you're interested in the Hadd training and aren't a typical angst-filled LR poster who is a strong candidate for ADHD, leave an e-mail address, and maybe I'll get back to you.
I don't do "Hadd" training "Lydiard" or "summer of Malmo." I will say that John L. Parkers book, heart rate monitor training for the compleat idiot, and info I fond on the internet such as Lydiard, Hadd, and this web site has changed the way I run. I've been increasing my miles per week. Taking it easy on easy days and hard on hard days, but the summer was nothing but long slow runs. My 8K time went from 28:18 to 27:21.
I'm hoping to break into the 15's this track season.
I like what Lydiard says: Its better to undertrain than over train. He also says something like run as many miles in single runs as you can do rather than double. This is good, but I think you should first make sure that you're not overtraining. I think all training methods are conditional and should therefor be adapted to the individual. I take all advice by saying yeah... but... if you know what I mean.
Don't take me seriously though because I'm not even fast. I see these results from DI meets and it makes me want to quit running. Hopefully I'll get down into the 24's. I know this is drastic but I'm tired of watching the Penn Relay's. I want to be competitive.
Zoom, I like the compelling /spirited nature of your post, but it also suggests that you lack restraint and discretion - 2 qualiities that I like a lot as well.
Canova writes great stuff. Of course, it is tailored to the ultra-talented (with these guys having a good base to work from as a likely given), and this very well may not be an accurate depiction of you. Nevertheless, you can't call it "poison" by any stretch.
As for the other fellas leaving an address, I'll send a note your way shortly (by Wednesday?). So, thanks for your patience (well, except for whichever one of you is "Zoom").
I also would appreciate if sent the information on the other training phases.
Sorry, forgot to add my email address.
I would also be very interested in the information on the training phases.