Real runners

IK was a big cross-trainer/cross-country skier, too. No comment on the other. Both lived in very cold and unfriendly conditions for runners in Norway and Alaska, respectively. In those conditions, I would use a treadmill, too. Especially for those all important tempo runs and up-tempo stuff (if your treadmill goes up to 4:00/mi like some).

Being a real runner, I run outside exclusively, and then only in the winter during a blizzard when it's cold enough to frostbite my pecker, or in a hailstorm if the hail is large enough to really knock the hell out of me. I've been considering running in the summer also, but only at Death Valley at 130+ degrees. You fair weather pussies make me sick.

I run at a school that doesn't have an indoor track. It gets cold as shit here too. Consistently in the top five coldest places in the country five out of seven days a week. I would love to see some "real" runners do 90-100mpw up here. Running at 8 in the morning when it is 5dfegrees below freezing isn't tough it is suicide and does nothing for you in terms of building fitness(which is the point behind training). In conditions like these being tough is out of the question. The treadmill is a lifesaver. I don't mind a little rain, and I admit some peopole are useless, but the treadmill and indoor track are valuable training devices. Fuck being tough, I'll be fast. That is my motto.

What a stupid post. If you don't have anything intelligent to say, just shut up.

Yo mama.

mud wrote:

An Olympic trials marathon was won by a person who strictly ran on a treadmill, so your tough guy attitude is pointless.

I know it's blury since it was 4 whole years ago, so let me help.

"Between her job as a pathologist at Providence Hospital in Anchorage, Alaska, chasing around her two sons, Matthew, 9, and Danny, 6, and making time to see her husband, John, a pulminologist and critical care physician in the hospital's intensive care unit, sometimes Clark just can't go running at a decent hour.

Christine Clark passes the 22-mile mark during the U.S. Olympic women's marathon trials Saturday in Columbia, S.C. (Mary Ann Chastain, Associated Press)

So a few times when she was training for the U.S. Olympic women's marathon trials, Clark found herself running on the treadmill crammed into the family's exercise room at 10 p.m"

So it was a FEW TIMES, not ALL her training. You CAN'T win a decent Marathon doing ALL your training on a treadmill. The road is not the same as the treadmill.

Back to the topic. I would agree with the original poster in that runners shouldn't confine themselves to the indoors. I can't believe it when it's a great day outside and you drive by the local health club and the treadmills, exercise bikes, and stairclimbers are all full. People are strange. I also can't believe it when people go to the track just to jog, indoors or outdoors. If I confined myself just to the track to do my running, I sure wouldn't do as much as I do. Go for a run. Find a trail, run down the street, see something. Indoor tracks and treadmills are great for people that have no alternative (kids, elements, etc).

you lightweights.... wrote:I live in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada (Winterpeg, Manitsnowba, Canaduh), and when it's -35 for a month at a time, you bet your ass I'm running on a treadmill.

Then you're a pansy.

I lived there for 3.5 years (13 yo son was born there) and ran and biked right through the winter. You can dress for anything - even Winnipeg winters.

Mind you, I did wipe out on the ice a number of times...

Just kidding about the pansy comment. I've found you can dress up for -35 with no wind, or about -25 with a strong wind, and beyond that there's really no practical way of dressing for the weather.

But to run on the treadmill because of rain, wind or a little bit of snow underfoot like the first poster was talking about, now that is being a pansy.

wait until you sprain, twist, tear or break something by "toughing it out"

i do not believe in treadmills but i can tell you that after falling on an icy road [and brusing my pelvis] while out for 8 miles and having to hobble 2.5 miles back to school treadmills start to look good when there is ice on the roads...the other day we had to run inside or on treadmills when its thunderstorming bc there are rivers on all sides of my school and they always flood...i HATE treadmills but you gotta run so...

I've never set foot on a treadmiil.

If you're serious about getting faster, you select the training modalities that lead you to that goal, regardless of whether you associate certain modalities with being tough or being a pansy.

Many years ago, I got injured a month before my target marathon. To train through the injury, I did all of my running on a treadmill at a very steep incline during the next month. I ended up running a 2:18:54 (a PR) in that marathon. I know that I lost some musculoskeletal "strength" while I was doing nothing but treadmill running (and the road felt very hard after a month on a treadmill), but if you're serious about your competitive goals, you do what you have to do under the conditions that present themselves.

My experience is that treadmill running allows high metabolic stress and central cardiovascular conditioning with reduced stresss on connective tissue and bone. Under ideal conditions, I wouldn't choose to use it for all of my training. But it is a valuable option to have available.

Excellent point from oldguy. The dreadmill is a good tool when you're injured and can't run on the roads. I've used one towards the end of a month of injury-induced cross training that mostly involved the stationary bike and elliptical trainer, and wound up with a new (now old) 10k PR. I hate treadmills, and won't use one when healthy, but there is a time and place for everything.

oldguy, why can't posts like yours start off threads to ward off so much of the nonsense that typically follows?

It doesn't matter where you run, so long as you run. I know plenty of people that run on treadmills. I don't question their choice. Whether mall walking, indoor track or treadmill running, it's the activity that matters and not the venue.

I agree with a lot of the posters about getting outside in the elements - but more for variety than to "prove your toughness".

Two nights ago we had some remnants of one of the hurricanes bring heavy rain to the DC area. I ran 12 miles in the pouring rain (warm rain thankfully) taking comfort I would be the only one. Actually, I saw two others. So I decided that if I was going to be wet, I would actually run in the 3 in deep endless puddle on the worn side of the trail. Kind of felt like a long XC race!

However, while treadmills are not as fun, they serve a purpose even to the best and toughest of runners. While living in central Sweden, I enjoyed being the first runner up the mountain in minus 20 degree weather, making the first tracks in the snow. However, with layers and layers of clothes on, it was not much of a speed workout. Fortunately in Scandinavia, treadmills that go up to 25km/hr are common and I often did high paced runs in the basement. No fresh air or ventilation, in a dimly lit room with some loud music, running alone on a treadmill at a continuous fast pace - believe me, it was tough and helps with form, pace and leg speed!

Don't know until you've put yourself in someone else's shoes (figuratively of course).

By the way, lived in the same building there with 4 Kenyan runners who also utilized the treadmill. It was quite amazing to see a 5'2" 110 lb Kenyan flying (quite literally) on the 'lopband' for long intervals at full speed (under 4 min/mile), while in a full tracksuit. Of course, he was a 1:01 half marathoner, and they thought that running in full tracksuits would help them lose weight as well.

what the heck is a "modality"?

dumbguy...there's no such thing as a dumb question so don't feel bad if you can't see the derivation of modality is

'mode'.

even seeing that im still not sure exactly what a "modality" is.

Think 'method'....training method, get it?

Being a tough guy isn't nearly as important as being healthy and in shape. There's nothing wrong with being prepared to race in bad weather or on tough courses or being able to handle missing a water stop or not getting enough warmup, etc. But don't go out of your way to find the toughest conditions under which to work out if it's going to be at the expense of getting the best preparation.

For instance, you wouldn't want to do lots of hard sprints into a 30mph wind just to get some imaginary (or miniscule, at best) "mental toughness" edge on your competitors who are wimping out by running with the wind. Whatever you gained in confidence in your toughness or in learning how to manage the headwind would almost certainly be more than offset by reinforcing poor form and consequently teaching yourself to struggle when running fast.

Another example: You wear full winter gear and run in ice and snow all the time so you can be a badass that can handle below zero weather, but you can't find more than a quarter mile at a time that gives you enough traction to run faster than 5:30 mile pace. What do you do if your target marathon is in perfect weather and 20 guys can average faster than 5:30 pace the whole way? Then you'd think it sure would've been nice to have used that treadmill to run some longer reps at 5:00 pace or to do some continuous runs where you could find a good rhythm.

Still more: Do some hill work on occasion, but don't do all of your repeats on the steepest hill in town because you think it will make you so gutsy that running 10k on a flat track will feel so much easier by comparison. You'll only strain your Achilles and won't train yourself to run at 10k race pace for very long.

Be tough, but don't be stupid. You don't have to do 20 milers in hot weather with no water and you don't have to eat tire spikes to be tough, and those things sure as sin won't keep you healthy or get you in the best possible shape. You can do some safe, smart and tough workouts indoors on a treadmill, you know.