Interesting - he ran twice/day only 3 times in each 9 day cycle and ran 24+ miles five times in the leadup to Boston.
That sort of contradicts the general LR consensus from malmo et al. that two-a-days are always better, and that there's no point to long runs if your mileage is high enough.
Malmo's lots o' doubles with no super long runs was for XC training during the summer, I believe, not for marathon training.
Schiller wrote:
Interesting - he ran twice/day only 3 times in each 9 day cycle and ran 24+ miles five times in the leadup to Boston.
That sort of contradicts the general LR consensus from malmo et al. that two-a-days are always better, and that there's no point to long runs if your mileage is high enough.
He didn't say that he only ran doubles 3x in the cycle, he said that he usually did that. You don't think that the 2nd ElliptiGO workout isn't a double? It is. Looks like doubles and even triples with this routine:
Keflezighi estimates he ran 140 to 150 miles during a typical 9-day cycle (109 to 116 mpw) before Boston. “That’s less than would have been the case in 2004,” when he won the silver medal in the Olympic marathon, he says, “but now I also do a lot of cross-training.”
Keflezighi usually ran twice a day three times in a 9-day cycle before Boston, sometimes on hard days, sometimes on recovery days. “I’m trying to avoid injuries,” he says. “Sometimes, if I’ve done a hard workout and it’s gone well and I think I don’t want to take the chance of a second run, I’ll do a 30-minute cool-down, and then that will be it for running for the day.
"Then I’ll ride the ElliptiGO or just take off for the rest of the day, depending on what I’m doing the next day.”...“I do my main run in the morning, but then for my second workout I often would rather be on the ElliptiGO than take the risk of a 30-minute run in the afternoon.”
Keflezighi typically rides between 10 and 20 miles on his ElliptiGO, which is one of his sponsors. “I ride at a pretty good effort,” he says. “I wear my heart rate monitor just for fun. It’s usually around 117, 118,” compared at 118-122 for a typical easy run. On days when he runs twice, he rides the ElliptiGO around noon, a couple of hours after finishing his main run of the day. During his peak preparation for Boston, he rode the ElliptiGO most days in a 9-day cycle.
Schiller wrote:
and that there's no point to long runs if your mileage is high enough.
I've never said that.
PIL wrote:
Malmo's lots o' doubles with no super long runs was for XC training during the summer, I believe, not for marathon training.
True, but I think he would still raise his eyebrows at the lack of doubles, even for marathon training. Maybe Meb was thinking the singles would be easier on his body - he talks a lot about not getting injured in the interview. Either way, he beat 14 sub-2:10 runners who were probably doing mostly doubles. I don't know if malmo still posts here but I'd be interested to hear his opinion on this.
malmo wrote:
He didn't say that he only ran doubles 3x in the cycle, he said that he usually did that. You don't think that the 2nd ElliptiGO workout isn't a double? It is. Looks like doubles and even triples with this routine:
Schiller wrote:and that there's no point to long runs if your mileage is high enough.
I've never said that.
I guess I misunderstood some of your earlier posts. After going back and reading, I realize you were saying that long runs should never be given priority over quality running for the other 6 days of the week, which makes a lot of sense.
With regards to the ElliptiGO "doubles", I doubt you get the types of benefits you get from an actual second run. It seemed kind of like Meb was just trying to promote his sponsors with his ElliptiGo workouts, but I've never tried it so what do I know.
Schiller wrote:
I guess I misunderstood some of your earlier posts. After going back and reading, I realize you were saying that long runs should never be given priority over quality running for the other 6 days of the week, which makes a lot of sense.
With regards to the ElliptiGO "doubles", I doubt you get the types of benefits you get from an actual second run. It seemed kind of like Meb was just trying to promote his sponsors with his ElliptiGo workouts, but I've never tried it so what do I know.
That's better. I've also said that longs runs should be proportional to your overall mileage and to the events that you are ultimately training for.
With regards to ElliptiGO, I've always thought that it would be a great substitute for injured runners (and injury prone runners), and no, you don't get the same benefit as running, you get a similar benefit.
Meb may be promoting a sponsor, but it is a product that he actually uses, and uses for a valid reason.
his training approach seems similar to Kenny Moore. 9-day cycle, long run, tempo, intervals. attention to recovery.
Schiller wrote:
. . .
With regards to the ElliptiGO "doubles", I doubt you get the types of benefits you get from an actual second run. It seemed kind of like Meb was just trying to promote his sponsors with his ElliptiGo workouts, but I've never tried it so what do I know.
You may not get the exact same benefit from a particular cross training regiment, but the point is that you get some benefit without being exposed to a disproportionate injury risk. My understanding from several years ago is that Meb was spending quite a bit of time cross-training on a stationary bike after his 2007 stress fracture. One would think an elliptical trainer would be more specific and if ElliptiGO is willing to pay him to do that instead, why not?
On a related note, competitorradio.com had a Frank Shorter interview a month or so ago where he talked extensively about cross-training as a master's runner.