Road Racing and Training Thread - Boston Edition

The Stone Cutter wrote:

TheGarbageDisposal[/b

illinoisphotographer - I have run that same type of marathon you described on three different occasions and none of them were pleasant. And while I know it hurt like hell, there's something to be said for avoiding the DNF. Boston Strong has many meanings.

I second the opinion of targeting the half-marathon goal, but see how your recovery goes first. I ultimately lost 4 months of running back in 2012 by not letting myself properly recover from a tough marathon, ending up with multiple stress fractures instead. Goals are great to have, but keep the big picture in perspective.

Very true. As you're aware, it's a bummer to put in all the work and have something out of your control ruin the big day. And unlike college races, it's not like I can go at it again next weekend.

How is everyone feeling today? I'm burned like crazy. Walking around with my backpack absolutely killed today. Oh.. and my quads, of course! No amount of downhill strides can prepare you for the day after!

here's my feeble attempt at a race report

0-5k

My goal was to start out very slow and save the energy for the hills and and the final 5 miles when I really needed it. I started out in the middle of the first corral probably about 15-20 people back from line (took 10 seconds from gun for me to cross). I figured starting in the middle would hopefully keep my pace in check as I wouldn't be tempted to run along the side and pass people. The first mile was basically straight downhill and the crowds were awesome right from the start. I felt good after the first mile and it was right where I wanted it to be. I picked it up for miles 2 and 3 and tried to get down to my target marathon pace (5:55-6:00). I took water from the stops at miles 2 & 3. Since the temps were rising my in race strategy was to simply take something from every station to try and stay hydrated. My test for level of effort in this section was running with my mouth closed--if I could do this then I figured I was in a nice zone. I never run with my mouth closed and I think this new breathing pattern would be something that I would regret later. The 5k was just a tad faster than I wanted to be at this point but overall was feeling good although it's hard not to on this part of the course.

5k split: 18:18 (18:18 5k)

5-10k

I knew that there was still another 5k of downhill in front of us and really wanted to get to 10k in great shape. During this stretch I kept doing my breathing test and felt in good shape. I took my first Roctane just before the mile 6 water stop and ran on..

10k split: 36:28 (18:10 5k)

10k-15k

Uneventful until mile 9 when I started to feel an oncoming side stitch--really high in the right side just below the rib cage. At this point I had no idea how bad it would get but nothing really to report in this stretch. However, it was in this stretch where something happened to my GPS function on my watch. I looked down at one point and my pace said 5:12 (which obviously I wasnt running for the mile). The mile "lapped" about .25 short of the sign, so I reset at the mile marker and then again it reset about .25 short. Not sure what is going on but my pace wouldnt start working until mile 17 or so. Not a huge deal but not knowing your exactly pace was just something mentally that I didnt need at this point. I just tried to stick with the people around me who were running even pacing.

15k split: 54:43 (18:15 5k)

15k-20k

As evidenced by my 5k split slowing, the side stitch got worse in these miles. I just kept looking forward to the mental pickup that the girls at Wellesley would bring and they didn't disappoint. In addition to taking Gatorade at some spots, I also took another Roctane just before mile 12 with the hopes that the electrolytes would help with the stitch. No such luck

20k split: 1:13:21 (18:38)

half marathon: 1:17:23

20-25k

This was probably my worst feeling 5k of the day. I was still dealing with a the side stitch and these miles are always the worst for me to deal with in a marathon. The town at the halfway point was absolutely insane in terms of crowd support which definitely helped to keep me running. There were many times where I thought about slowing and/or walking with the pain in my side. After splitting in 1:17: , I knew a 2:35 wasn't happening and questioned at this point if I would have a meltdown in the hills with this side stitch. I was praying the wheels didn't come off and my time slip into the 2:40s. My legs felt great but I just couldn't dial in the pace.

25k split: 1:32:07 (18:46 5K)

25-30k

The mile 16 sign was a much welcome banner as I knew that my family would be in this mile. Crossing over the Mass Turnpike is probably my least favorite portion ofthe course --I think I may hate it more than any of the Newtown Hills. Once again the crowds swelled around the hospital and Woodland T stop. I sawmy family. I declined the bottle of water that I'd given to wifeto bring as I felt part of my side stitch issues may have been the bloating feeling from too much liquid. I had skipped the water stop at mile 15 in the hopes of getting rid of this side stitch but seeing my family was an added boost and knew I had to carry on. Right when we took the left onto the first hill I started to feel better in terms of the side stitch. Also took another Roctane at the top of the first hill. Not a great 5k time but I had turned the corner at this point and knew I could bring it home.

30k split: 1:51:18 (19:11 5k)

30-35k

I felt great on the hills this year and it was around the mile marker 20 sign that I started to really pass people which is a huge emotional lift. My times dont reflect it but I think a lot of people were suffering here and I wish there was a way to look up places at certain points in the race because I passed a lot of people over the final 10k.

35k-finish

At the mile 20 sign, I knew I had to run a 37 minute 10k to bring home a sub 2:37. It felt like I was running faster than my splits but the clock doesnt lie. My final 4.2 miles were: 6:01, 5:56,5:59,6:08,77seconds

I knew when I hit 1 mile to go that I would be awfully close to 2:37. I saw my family right at this point and hoped I would get a kick but was starting to redline now. I wish I would have taken in the right onto Hereford and Left onto Bolyston more because the crowds were absolutely INSANE. It's everything you train for but I was so focused on the possible 2:37 and running a fast final quarter that I didnt get a chance to look around and take it in.

35k split: 2:10:25 (19:07 5k)

40k split: 2:29:02 (18:37 5k)

Finish: 2:37:06

26.4 miles at 5:57

Although I missed my time goal of sub 2:37, I was happy with the result and coming in the top 250 overall which is an improvement from last year. The side stitch definitely cost me some time and the heat got to me more than I anticipated but overall a great day and race. Feeling pretty good today, ran 4 recovery this morning. Legs are sore but overall ok. Definitely binging on junk food like crazy today:)

These are some great race reports. Really solid efforts, all of you guys! Illinois, hanging tough to finish when it's not your day takes as much strength as setting a PR. Use whatever you can take away from this race to fuel the next one.

Out of curiosity, how old are you guys and what kind of mileage were you hitting in training?

cmm268 wrote:

.....My times dont reflect it but I think a lot of people were suffering here and I wish there was a way to look up places at certain points in the race because I passed a lot of people over the final 10k......

So I'll comment in a little bit on everything else, but I wanted to show off my excel skills so I'll share something I did last night at the airport while killing some time while waiting for security to let people in for the morning flight.

I basically put my excel abilities to use and figured out a way to import results into a template I had set up, then did a couple of rounds of copy/paste/sorting and got the top 500 finishers in the format I wanted them. So below are our places at each 5K among the top 500 male finishers. (only took about 10-15 minutes but I got bored) In other words, you might actually be farther back at certain points than the places listed below, but if the person that was ahead of you didn't finish in the top 500 then they weren't included in the counts below. This is more likely to occur for the earlier checkpoints since a ton of people went out hard and just faded hard.

Me:

5K - 140

10K - 138

15K - 128

20K - 118

Half- 118

25K - 112

30K - 94

35K - 100

40k - 100

Finish - 90

Split for 40K-Finish: 15th

CMM268:

5K - 288

10K - 273

15K - 269

20K - 277

Half- 276

25K - 293

30K - 296

35K - 274

40k - 231

Finish - 204

Split for 40K-Finish: 91st

NP1112:

5K - 442

10K - 453

15K - 455

20K - 452

Half- 449

25K - 446

30K - 436

35K - 419

40k - 339

Finish - 304

Split for 40K-Finish: 60th

Looks like the three of us all closed pretty well over the last bit. Well done guys.

wow thank you so much GarbageDisposal this is awesome! 15th fastest finishing kick for you on the day is outstanding.

Alright, meant to reply/comment last night but just plain passed out.

First off, thanks for those following at home and pulling for us. I was thinking this weekend about how much more support I am getting heading into the race compared to when I ran it in 2010 and nobody really knew except my wife and some of our family/friends. Honestly, I think knowing there were so many people "watching" (via online tracking mostly) was a huge reason that I tried to salvage my race after 35K instead of just stepping off the course, and as a result I had one of the most incredible experiences of my life. Heck, if it wasn't for my breakthrough to start the year, the race would have been a 7-minute PR, and if someone told me on 1/1 of this year that I would run 2:30:xx and finish top 100 in the Boston marathon I would have taken it in a heartbeat.

Slowpoke Rodriguez- Yes, the 30K point is right before you hit mile 19, so it's basically at the halfway point of the Newton Hills after you pass the first 2 and have 2 more. As you can see I basically rolled through the first 2 so my 25K-30K split was still pretty much the same as the previous 5 5K splits. I think it was seeing the 1:44:xx here that made me start dreaming of big things.

Bonham / VF Runner / Once and Future- I have had the same thought on the experience / effort comment. I know it's a cliche thing to say, but I actually think this race will benefit me more long-term than if I had run 2:26-2:28:xx. (and not to sound overconfident, but as long as the conditions at Air Force Marathon is decent, whatever small PR I might have run on Monday would be reset on 9/20 anyways)

In addition to the incredible experience at the end, I now know how hard I am capable of closing at the end of 26.2 and it'll serve me well if I get caught in a race for podium spots in mid-sized marathons in the future. Finally, had I barely escaped mile 22 without cramping, I probably wouldn't be thinking as much right now about how to address my weakness on hills right now and incorporate that into my future training.

IllinoisPhotographer- Sorry to hear your race didn't go well. As someone who had two extremely disappointing Bostons before this past Monday, I can relate. That course just has the ability to absolutely wreck havoc on your plans, dreams, and your body.

It seems like based on your recent workouts and especially your Shamrock Race that you should have no problem hitting the sub-1:11 mark to qualify for the sub-elite corral in Chicago. I would go after that and then absolutely kill it in October when you'll have a fast course and plenty of competition (and hopefully good conditions). I know it's tempting to want to get out there and run a good one (heck, I had fleeting thoughts about running Grandma's instead of the half marathon there like I have already signed up), but I would follow your original plan, especially at your age when you can still make plenty of gains at the shorter distances that will set you up well for marathons years down the road.

Stone Cutter- I guess my reply to your comment is similar to what I said to VF/Bonham/etc, the finishing experience was incredible and I'll never forget the last few minutes as long as I live, and the experience told me what I am capable of late in the race. I still don't really understand how I was able to bring the pace back down that much without my hamstrings acting up again, but I am just going to really work on strengthening my legs for my next marathon so hopefully it doesn't happen again. (I know, wishful thinking)

CMM268- Great race and report. I think you made some great adjustments along the race to deal with your issues and put together quite a rally yourself. It's also cool to see that after you have run Boston once before you know exactly where you can get a "pick-me-up" from the crowd along the way.

Definitely enjoy your well deserved postrace food.

Hereford- I am 31, and have run as high as 125 miles in a week, but my typical training week is around 80-110. I did pretty low mileage in HS (25-40 mpw), ran a couple of years in college (50-75 mpw), and only started training seriously again in 2009 so I probably only have about 20,000 lifetime miles in my legs. At least that's what I tell myself to convince myself that I still have a lot of room left for improvement.

Just out of curiosity, is your handle related in any way to the high school in Maryland? I ran for River Hill High.

No relation to the high school - just a nod to the Boston faithful that line those two blocks between Commonwealth and Boylston. They give me goose bumps every year when I round that corner. It's what keeps me coming back to that race.

Congrats again on an awesome run.

Hereford wrote:

No relation to the high school - just a nod to the Boston faithful that line those two blocks between Commonwealth and Boylston. They give me goose bumps every year when I round that corner. It's what keeps me coming back to that race.

Congrats again on an awesome run.

Thanks, hope you had a good race as well!

Agree on the comment about the crowds, had a ton of fun just giving out high fives to everyone on the right side of the road as I turned onto Hereford. (something I might not have done if I still had a shot at sub-2:30 at that point).

Wow, you guys killed it. Running fast on that course is hard from what I gather. Out of all of my teammates who went (15+), I think only three ran PRs, and most were off by at least ten minutes. Some of that might have been jet lag, but I think a good amount was the end of the course too.

Sorry if I didn't cheer for you guys, keeping track of all of my teammates and getting photos when they pass at the same time is surprisingly difficult. Mad respect to coaches...

Garmin Splits:

1 5:57.0 1.00 5:57 – Traffic!

2 5:33.3 1.00 5:33

3 5:39.4 1.00 5:39

4 5:39.1 1.00 5:39

5 5:38.0 1.00 5:38

6 5:32.8 1.00 5:33

7 5:36.7 1.00 5:37

8 5:37.7 1.00 5:38

9 5:40.5 1.00 5:41

10 5:43.0 1.00 5:43

11 5:41.9 1.00 5:42

12 5:36.1 1.00 5:36

13 5:34.6 1.00 5:35

14 5:51.1 1.00 5:51

15 6:33.1 1.00 6:33 – Mild cramps, stopped to down a full Gatorade cup and retie a untied shoelace

16 5:44.3 1.00 5:44

17 6:16.5 1.00 6:16 – mild cramps

18 7:39.8 1.00 7:40 – bad cramps

19 6:34.9 1.00 6:35 – loosened up

20 7:33.3 1.00 7:33 – mild cramps

21 8:01.1 1.00 8:01 – severe cramps

22 6:55.4 1.00 6:55 – loosened up / downhill

23 11:17.7 1.00 11:18 – couldn’t breathe without pain

24 8:58.7 1.00 8:59 – couldn’t breathe without pain

25 6:35.2 1.00 6:35 – mild cramps

26 6:21.6 1.00 6:22 – I SEE THE END IS NEAR

27 :17.9 0.04 7:07 – strange split???

28 1:58.6 0.36 5:31 (left on Boylston) - BALLS OUT

Holy hell on Mile 23... At least I closed the last 600 on Boylston hard!

cmm268 6 seconds off your goal?! That's awesome man! Glad you seemed to be recovering quickly! Take it easy this week though. I remember from last year that although my legs felt better 4-5 days later, I wasn't back into the swing of workouts for about 3 weeks.

TheGarbageDisposal Nice finish from 40k to the end. Passing so many people! Was it kind of a pick it up and sprint or were others dying? Closing hard at the end of races always is the best feeling ever.

From my splits above, I was pretty solid through 16-17 actually. The first 2 miles were a cluster, and our first 400m was actually almost a 7:30 pace. Come 11-12 I was feeling a little off, but nothing that was alarming me. Wellesley college was a blast. Held my hand out for the entire section and got a million high fives. That was totally worth it. Mile 16 was entertaining. One of my best friends was there and he flashed me. Made me laugh. I think it was right after we crossed over the highway.

At the finish though, all I wanted to do was sit down. I made it to the Gatorade protein shake section and just sat on the sidewalk for about 20 minutes. Then managed to get back up and made it to almost the end and found one of my college friends and sat for an hour. Downed 5 of the water bottles and 2 Gatorade protein shakes during that time. And got burned like crazy

I also got clock-blocked by my ex… Two really, really cute girls from Nebraska sat down next to me and we were talking for probably 15 minutes. My ex walks by and I yell out to give her a high five. She decided to sit down next to me on my other side for 10 minutes. The two NE girls left then.

Anyone else go to the after party? I was a little disappointed. I mean it was a lot of fun, but there didn’t seem to be nearly as many young people as I was hoping for. And the beer seemed somewhat expensive ($6/bottle)

I had stomach problems from the start and slogged it in a personal-worst of 3:18. But I really think you gain something by not giving up on a day when you're struggling. Plus I'm 44, so technically at least I requalified under the 3:20 standard. Planning to run CIM in Dec to get back to my 2:50 range and keep a decent Boston corral spot.

Xenon- Thanks, although the crowd was so insane that your cheers might have gotten drowned out anyways. I had a dozen people tell me they were going to be cheering on various points of the course and the only ones I saw were at around mile 6 when it was still fairly early on and I had the mental energy to look around. By the time I hit the Newton Hills I was pretty much in race mode and while I could hear the crowds I definitely didn't have the capacity to look over for faces.

Hereford- Agree with the comment on not giving up. I ran 17 minutes slower than my PR last year and almost dropped out, but the experience of running those last 10 miles and really getting a feel for the hills on the course helped me tremendously this year. Good luck in your upcoming races. Also, there are a lot of guys around your level posting in the weekly training thread if you are interested in joining us and get some feedback on your training.

IllinoisPhotographer- The last mile was definitely a bit of a pickup, although I really didn't know I was running that fast until I crossed the finish line. I ran miles 24 and 25 in 5:39 and 5:35 so I knew I was back to running marathon pace again, albeit with significantly heavier legs, I ran that last mile at 5:25-5:30 effort at best and was shocked to see my last mile split being 1-2s off of my HM PR pace because it really didn't feel that hard. I think I passed the first 7 of the 10 guys from 40K-41K and then got the last 3 in the last 30 yards, so I ran the loudest part of the course pretty much all alone and the energy from the crowd definitely had a huge role in the strong finish.

wow a lot to comment on. I didnt think I would get so far behind. I have just been taking it easy. Slept almost all day today haha.

Garbage: we already talked plenty so we know what we both think haha

Illinois: sorry to hear things didnt work out. Looks like it was just one of those fluke days. I would go with the half like you planned at first. Unless you feel recovered enough to try the marathon?

CMM: congrats on the big PR! so close to sub 237, that I know you will get on a flat or fast course your next time out.

I forgot to look for anyone along the course. I was just feeling it and in a zone lol

I will give a quick race report. Got up around 630 (i think) and did a 1mi shake out before the car ride. I think that really helped since last year i got right into the busses and just got tight and tighter. Jogged for 5 min heading to the corrals to loosen up a bit more.

Started out about 3/4 back of the first corral so I wouldnt go out too hard. That really worked as I was like 613 for the first mile, probably a little too slow.

I honestly didnt have a point during the race where I felt bad or like things were going wrong. Saw a local guy around 9 and we went back and forth up until 17. Went through half in 1:12:15. Feeling very strong and relaxed at this point. Decided to work the newton hills comfortable but a little higher effort. I think I could have gone harder on them looking back. But I was passing almost everyone from there to the finish.

After heartbreak I really picked it up. I was feeling on top of the world. I knew that I was behind pace but felt like sub 2:40 was very possible. My last 5 miles were 547, 553, 552, 545, 549, and 2:12(0.41 garmin). I think that is 2:33 marathon pace.

The crowds were just plain insane this year. If I even had a hint of a rough spot, I was lifted up by the screams and cheering. I am still feeling awesome and ecstatic that I broke 2:40. I dont know what is next. But I now have a lot more confidence going into whatever i decide on.

so much to comment on in this thread as well

illinois- so sorry to hear about your race. Some bright points although I'm sure they do little to console you. You had an epic collapse by your standards and still ran a 2:50. Think about that for a second. Most people would kill to run that in a marathon, let alone the Boston Marathon. the 2nd point is that you avoided a DNF on Monday which is awesome in and of itself. I am a marathoner (not a good one by most in this thread) but my advice would be to go out and crush Green Bay in a month...it goes against the advice of everyone here but I think a great race here brings the reward to your marathon season. Thanks for the advice--I do plan to take it easy for 2 weeks minimum and do all recovery (i.e. who gives a crap about the pace) runs. 4 yesterday and 5 today.

Hereford- I am 34. Started running seriously 3 years ago and now run between 70-100 mpw and peaked for Boston this time around at 112. I didnt run in college, got fat through my 20s, started getting healthy and picked up cycling at age 28 then running at 30ish. I'm hoping I have 2-3 more "peaking" years ahead of me and learn a ton and stay motivated from many in the RRTT like np1112, garbage, stonecutter,vfrunner, illinoisphotographer, xenon,etc. week in and week out. Sorry to hear about your stomach issues, and it definitely says something that you BQ'd on a day when you felt awful in less than ideal conditions.

np1112-congrats again on an awesome race, hope you are feeling good. You're up next for a race report:)