Why are long runs Nessecary for Shorter Distances? 800-1500????

You've all missed something here.

The answer to whether the long run helps is completely different for 800 and 1500. 1500 is mainly aerobic, 800 is as much or more anaerobic.

I am convinced the long run has no direct benefit at all for an 800 specialist. It has some benefit in getting the runner's body ready for tough longer (for an 800 runner) sessions. Almost training for training.

Karma Police wrote:

You've all missed something here.

I don't think we missed it

"Aerobic benifit" doesn't have to come from "the long run." It comes from all aerobic training, whether it contains a or not

Hence, Brenda's 70 mpw is beneficial, but putting 15 of those 70 mpw into one long run would be unnecessary

Firstly my definition of a long run = 90mins or more where you spend 1/3 of the run pushing it. For me, I usually start slow and speed up gradually the whole time.

In my experience - long runs are absolutely vital in early training phases. Without them, I would suffer. In late training phases, they are not so useful since they make me too fatigued which interferes with more important workouts as well as replacing a track workout to begin with. Though I would always have at least an easy 10 to 12 miler in there but I wouldn't push the pace.

Peter Snell.

Stizzle wrote:

Seems like replacing the long run day with another hard track workout would be more beneficial if your goal is to get faster.

_________________________

Even serious milers do 12-15 mile long runs once a week.

BandOnTheRun wrote:

Peter Snell.

seb coe

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long runs

We are still having this conversation 50 years later?

Yes long runs are essential for middle distance runners. How long seems to depend on the runner. But no long runs or no aerobic building period is wrong.

The most effective way to build your aerobic foundation is to do steady state long runs with consistent pressure on the heart.

Band on the Run mentioned Peter Snell, two things:

1.) Canova said that it is not true that during a long run when you deplete the slow twitch fibers of glycogen you do not activate the fast twitch. This is in contrast to Dr. Peter Snell who was one of two (John Hadd the other) that found that you do indeed activate the fast twitch. Although Snell said you have to run at least 7 minutes per mile.

2.) Snell had a few world records and gold medals in the 800m, 880 yard, mile etc, and he ran long runs of over 32 kms (or 20 miles) and ran up to 100 miles per week, here and there.

The low mileage Coe story has been debunked and refuted many times, he did high mileage.

But both Snell and Coe did low mileage too, it is called peaking.

Don't confuse someone's training schedule that shows two weeks as their whole year. The athlete must have a strong aerobic foundation, not for sheer speed - that comes later - but for the ability to take-in and utilize oxygen late in a race, because the 800m is still more aerobic than anaerobic.

Also, whoever said the word "pounding" take it out of your lexicon. Fast elite runners do not pound, they are very smooth. Overweight, out of shape beginners do, but they are not having this debate...

'Overweight, out of shape beginners do, but they are not having this debate...'

I think they are having this debate

of course the long run helps. Its not necessary, you can run a mile just training 20 miles a week if you like. Long runs are fun though. I was a 10k guy, but long runs were the funnest part of my week. They increase endurance and allow you to run more at a given pace. So after doing some 18 mile long runs you can do 20 x 400 instead of 8 x 400. Its going to make it a lot easier to pr. You could take it to the extreme and say no distance is necessary, just run 1 mile as hard as you can 3x a day or something. You could repeat 1990s training. Or you can look at what most successful athletes do and base your training on that.

Look at the Olympic champions/WR holders for 800 & 1500 in modern times. The vast majority at both distances did long runs at some stage of their training programme.

Clearly , "long" is a touch vague as a description but if we accept that into the teens is "long" (and many people would argue double figures is long) I can't think of many greats at these distances who did not do long runs. (A 400/8000 type is a different matter.)

Having looked at the published training logs of both Scott and Ovett it is interesting that although both were high mileag men very few of their runs were longer than 10 miles - Ovett used to do 2 x 10 miles in a day very often in his base phase at well under 6 mins/mile pace. Could it be that both men thought that longer runs were too wearing and this adversely impacted upon the consistency of their training?

Finally , let's nail this one. Coe did long runs regularly. Doing a long run even once a week does not mean you will accrue high mileage - it's what you do on the other days that determines your overall mileage!

You are correct. Sadly I am one of them.

coach d wrote:

Sebastian Coe, Wilson Kipketer, William Tanui, Japeth Kimutai, David Rudisha, and Hicham El Guerrouj did NOT have long runs in their written training plans. Jama Aden also does not have any long runs in the published schedules, though Kaki has gone up to 80 mpw.

El Guerrouj ran 60 minute easy runs several times a week.

First preparation cycle (from October 18 to November 7, 1996)

Day

Morning

Afternoon

18

Aerobic endurance

strength work

19

Aerobic endurance

Physical preparation

20

Aerobic endurance

Aerobic endurance

21

rest

strength work

22

Power

Aerobic endurance

23

Aerobic endurance

Physical preparation

24

Aerobic endurance

strength work

25

Rest

Aerobic endurance

26

Aerobic endurance

Power

27

Aerobic endurance

Aerobic endurance

28

Aerobic endurance

strength work

29

Rest

Rest

30

Aerobic endurance

Aerobic endurance

31

Aerobic endurance

Power

1

Aerobic endurance

strength work

2

Rest

Aerobic endurance

3

Aerobic endurance

Aerobic endurance

4

Aerobic endurance

strength work

5

Aerobic endurance

Aerobic endurance

6

Rest

Rest

7

Aerobic endurance

strength work

Aerobic endurance.

He does four types of work:

30-45 min of continuous running.

50-60 min of continuous running.

4 x 2000 m in 5:10 with 2 min recovery

6 x 1000 m in 2:30 with 2 min recovery

Here's an article on 800 meter training from Renato CANOVA posted in 2003.

ON more than one occasion, Coe said he did and did around 100 miles per week.

John Walker, first man under 3:50 for the mile and most sub 4 minute miles and even more equivelents at 1500m distance ran good mileage, albeit his long runs were short for a marathon runner, but they were long....

Again, I may not be qualifed to say so, but I will repeat, Canova's logic about the long run depleting the slow twitch fibers/activating fast twitch flies in the face of Peter Snell's findings.

Athleticsillustrated wrote:

ON more than one occasion, Coe said he did and did around 100 miles per week.

Not here -

"He also states immediately after that his mileage during the winter is "normally about 75-80 miles per week.""

After experimenting with 120 mile weeks, Steve Cram felt they were of little benefit and settled on 70-80 mpw during his base building phase http://www.britishmilersclub.com/bmcnews/1995spring.pdf[/lin

Randy Oldman wrote:

After experimenting with 120 mile weeks, Steve Cram felt they were of little benefit and settled on 70-80 mpw during his base building phase

http://www.britishmilersclub.com/bmcnews/1995spring.pdf

[/lin

Another example of a middle distance runner abandoning high mileage

most sub 4 minute miles

no, Steve Scott has

Depends on what is "long mileage" to an 800m runner. For someone who has to race under two minutes...or even under three for that matter, 80 miles would seem like a tonne of running.

Coe did say in a TV interview during the London Olympics a comment about "having to do all those 100 mile weeks". For all we know he could have meant anything that the average person sees as "around 100", which 80-odd is, sorta.

Anyway Gary Reed 1:43.68 ran over 70 miles in the off season. There are a tonne of examples of 800m runners going 70 to 90 miles per week in the off racing season. Does that mean every human needs to run 70...or 80 specifically? How is it laid out. What is the physiology of the person? History?

There are very few to nearly none in comparison that ran 50 to 65 miles per week in the off-season.

What started the long running (pun) myth that Coe only ran 60 miles per week, was an off-hand answer about an off-hand question (sorta like his 100 mile weeks comment during the Olympics). He said that he was running just 60 miles per week. He didn't say when. If you would ask Peter Snell during the Olympics how much he ran last week he might say 40 or 50 or 60 miles. Boy that could have set off generations of followers to run no miles.

Anyway, the experiment is probably far from done. Someone is going to come along and claim 40 miles per week 12 weeks of the year and surfing the rest of the year and run a 1:43 and someone else will come along and run 1:43 and tell tales of running Mexican mountains 200 miles per week in singles.

A handful of humans out of over 7 billion over the past 50 years of millions, tells us little.

Will an 800m prospect try outrageous new training regimens, to see what works? Hopefully! Then we will know more.

Coe wasn't only training for 800. The 1500 is a heap more aerobic than the 800.

Who's to say that Snell wouldn't have run faster 800s with different training? You really think training has not progressed since the Lydiard days?

I think it comes down to the person. Juantorena and Krachtochvilova were incredible 800 runners, on limited aerobic training. OK, they might have had some "assistance", but you still have to run for that time, and they did it without a lot of aerobic work. They of course were true 400-800 types - or even 200-400-800 types.