Out of curiousity, what other parts of your body started acting up? I don't know what I have exactly, but do know I'm maintaining a decent fitness level and do other sports, and I've got some longterm pain in other spots starting to creep up, wondering if related. Any info mucho appreciated...
Anyone ever had a "Sports Hernia" aka: "Sportsman's hernia", "Gilmore's groin", or "
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Jlee--
Out of curiousity, what other parts of your body started acting up? I don't know what I have exactly, but do know I'm maintaining a decent fitness level and do other sports, and I've got some longterm pain in other spots starting to creep up, wondering if related. Any info mucho appreciated... -
ROC wrote:
Thanx again for keepin this post and my hopes alive people!
Just trying to get all the info before I find out what I'm possibly dealing with. I do know that rest, anti-inflams,
ice, and rest haven't helped. Goin on 2 yrs with this...
2 yewars? for the love of god, call dr. meyers....drexel u. physicians...that will be the end of your problem! he fixed me! READ THE THREAD...what ails you? -
I dont have health insurance bud. Only flares up when i try and run long, so its not the end of the world. Last summer, had no idea what i was looking at. Don't run winters, felt fine. This spring, started running again low mileage, was ok, started buidling, got bad. Its quite simple: no health insurance, time to diagnose problem = 2 yrs. And still not sure if i want myers going in there, and risking my other activities. Running is a passion of mine, but not even remotely close to everything. And i tell you what, if it wasn't for this site and the art of googling, it could have taken way longer to figure this out. Consider yourself lucky that you figured it out so fast, and it worked.
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I'm pretty sure I have this too. Started with a bad coughing fit over a period of 2-4 days that led to a mild but noticeable lower ab stitch that hung on for weeks after the sickness went away. Once that was gone I was noticing groin problems mostly on one side (same as the stitch) but did not make the connection, just blamed it on starting speedwork in March/April. Now w/ the benefit of this thread it looks like I have a classic sports hernia. It is most painful with sudden movements, as when starting a stride/sprint or when rising from the floor after lying on the nonaffected side (and abdecting the affected leg in so doing). I can run around all day at 7:00 pace thought.
I'll tell you what, this has gone on for 6 months now, and at no time has it either crippled my running 10% or gone away altogether. A month off did not heal it. In fact rest doesn't seem to do shit, I wake up in the morning more sore than the night before and it gets a little better with the day, kinda like PF. I guess doing ab exercises is not the smartest thing at this point, but on the other hand I am not going to fly all the way to Philly to let some surgeon go in there with a knife just so I can get out there and jog my 27 minute 5 mile races for a couple more years. Cycling/elliptical/power walking/fat fatty ass, here I come. -
It started with the left adductor and then moved to the pubic bone within two weeks. Theory is that I tore the adductor doing lunges. Continued to run with it (approximately 50 - 80 miles a week)and after 18 months the pain moved into the abdominal/groin area where it connects to the pubic bone. All my films (xray, mri, bone scan and cat scan) confirmed the diagnosis of osteitis pubis and adductor tendinopathy just not gilmore's groin. Though I was tested for a regular hernia and that came out negative.
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ROC wrote:
I dont have health insurance bud.
Just as heads up...My insurnace company has been billed $27,000 for the whole procedure SO FAR. I may have more bills rolling in too. So if you have to pay out of pocket be sure to negotiate before any services are rendered. Or go get insurance... -
JPL-
I really appreciate all your feedback and insight to this.
Seriously. I know its gonna be alot of money, and I think I might be looking at bi-lat, so who knows what that'll run when its all said and done. I just started gathering info this summer on what I was looking at, after realizing that the old RICE method wasn't doing a damn thing, and the only reason steps haven't been taken to address this is the lack of insurance, and god knows I'm not going out of pocket. So, again, thanx for all the comments on the intracies of the injury, cost, etc...Very much appreciated, i'm gonna nail down some insurance this week, and go from there. -
Jlee,
Thanx for responding. I don't know if i'm trippin or what, now i'm just thinking that everything that hurts is a result of this. I continued to run short distances (approx 30 minutes), and my back/ribcage has been hurting since I tried to go on a long run 3 wks ago to see if I could possibly do my long planned marathon in September, which is OUT for the record. I'm gonna shelve running altogether, and my other activities, which will be hard as hell to do. I thought i'd heard the spinal cord could be enflamed, since its connected to some extent, or something like that. Anyways, i don't think its related, but taking some time off altogether should say alot. Again, thanks for the info. This is a frustrating injury that i need to address soon. -
You're welcome. Sometimes my lower back will be sore but I am not sure if it is related. This injury has crushed many of my running and life goals so I completely understand. I will tell you that taking time off did absolutely nothing for me but you should try it to see if it makes a difference for you. I am having surgery with meyers in 6 weeks so I'll be posting any updates and information that I get. Good luck.
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Jlee-
Yeah man, good luck to you as well. Real interested to see your reports post-surgery. I've taken significant time off in the past (3 mnths) and its still there, so I'm pretty sure thats not the solution. I'm just trying to rest now, b/c the rest of my body seems to be begging for it. I'm in the process of getting some health insurance, and taking the appropriate steps in figuring this out. Not even sure i have it, but from all signs and symptoms, time, etc, pretty confident that I do, unfortunately. I'm keeping the faith, and hope to be back to full power eventually, though I know there is a possibility that won't be the case. Again, thanks, good luck, and keep the updates coming! -
Does anyone have any information on the safety of flying and preventing blood clots after surgery? For those of you who flew to see Meyers, how many days did you wait after surgery before flying home? Thanks.
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There have been a couple of good articles on Pubalgia recently...
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05229/554803.stm
(in Newsweek, too...)
More Cattey vs. Meyers...
http://www.wlns.com/Global/story.asp?S=3739116
One guy who might have had the rare Meyers then Cattey (usually other way around) redo...
http://www.usatf.org/athletes/bios/Seaman_Tim.asp
But - for anyone who thinks titanium rivets & mesh is a cakewalk (hit 'original HERNIA site')...
http://pages.prodigy.net/replyasap/ -
Jlee wrote:
Does anyone have any information on the safety of flying and preventing blood clots after surgery? For those of you who flew to see Meyers, how many days did you wait after surgery before flying home? Thanks.
I flew across the country 2 days after surgery with no problems. You are released from the hospital the next day (one night stay) and are free to fly then. I heard nothing about blood clots being a concern and I had no problems. I had one stopover to get up and move but I felt fine the whole time and I never used any pain meds. -
Okay I just need some feedback on here. I've followed what was/has been posted. I just need some advice from fellow runners, not doctors. :)
I am actually deciding right now between Dr. Cattey an Dr. Myers for surgery.
Basically the pain for me started in late March, mostly just in the groin area on the right side, not much just kind of dull, didn't think anything about it really. I had been a little sick in early March and had a cough like never before and kind of tighted up my ribcage on the lower right side. Ran an 8k race in late April, but felt like I was missing some pop in my turnover, like I was running with restricted range of motion and ran very flat. Then things kind of got worse, not horribly, but not good. Kept training hard, ran a very hilly race in early June. Went in banged up and came out a wreck, down hills were much worse then up. Felt like things were about to lock up and the cool down was like a shuffle. I did some pool running, etc. My range of motion is fine. I can do all the stretches in the world. I can hammer on stationary bike and do hard pool workouts and no problem, no pain.
Anyway in late June I left to go overseas, spent several weeks on the road. The pain got worse and it was hard to treat it. I could maintain an easy pace like 6:45's, but man past 45 minutes it would just lock up and most days it hurt from the onset from the groin, the abs, the entire pelvic area and even hips sometimes, the pain moved around like nothing I had ever had. It didn't make sense. A doctor looked at me, saw no hernia and nothing added up. I was locking up whenever I tried to run hard or long and was/am in pain to a degree even on easy days like 45-60 min. Sometimes it feels like the bottom of my pelvic bone is about to give out. The most I attempted run over those weeks was a 72 mile week, but nothing ever felt good. I couldn't imagine even trying to race or do hard workouts with it.
I did a lot of research and checked through everything I could find. Finally another runner and coach directed me to this thread and said check this out.
So now I am trying to determine who is the best to see (Dr. Cattey or Dr. Myers). I've talked to them both and the procedures are different. Which is best? I've heard both, but man I only want to go through surgery one time.
Some background, I am 32, have run about 40,000 miles so the body has a little wear on it. Avg. talent 24:50 8k, 1:09 1/2 marathon. Just like to run, avg 60-70 MPW on singles year around, more at times, but at least 3000 miles a year.
Thanks for your help.
Mark -
Mark,
I'd go with Meyers, although I'm biased. I am not fully healed yet so who knows what is in store for me but I am now 8 weeks out and starting to feel a lot better and increasing running and other activty slowly. I won;t know if it worked until I can getout run on a trial for several hours which is many weeks away right now. I have heard of some problems with Cattey (e.g., adductor pain that stays, probs with the mesh insert rubbing on other things, and people who have had Meyers fix the probs from Cattey) and not with Meyers but, of course, there is always bias. I'm sure you'll find others with exactly the opposite opinion. My experience with Meyers, from a surgial standpoint and his experience and success rate, has been positive. He also has been successful with a lot of professional athletes which says something. Hard to say because each injury is different. Just my 2 cents here. I hope you can hear from someone witha lot of support for Cattey so you can get a feel for both sides.
JPL -
I had the surgery with Dr. Meyers and I have not had the best experience. I had a rect. abd. tear as well as adductor tears. Meyers did the adductor release and pelvic repair. I just never recovered fully. He has a very high success rate and most of his athletes do great. I was wondering if he hears from the people that don't do that well????
So I don't know if I will ever be the same. -
Mark-
Keep us posted on what you decide on. I'm trying to figure out who to go to as well. Your write-up echoed alot of my problems. Over 45 minutes, and it locks up bad. My body has alot of wear and tear to it also. Ran competitively in high school, collegiately x-c,indoor,outdoor, telemark skied 700+ days over the past 5 winters. I think it finally caught up to me.
I'm reading they both have different methods, both have treated elite athletes (Meyers seems to have more), and both their success rates seem good. Cattey gave me a good impression.
Anyways, best of luck! -
I agree, Cattey gave me a good impression, Myers seems more established though. I guess part of me is apprehensive about the mesh and screws in the pelvic bone because if they don't work then what next? As with Myers doing it the old fashioned way it may take longer to heal, but I think there is less risk.
It's all clear as mud to me since I am just a runner/coach, not a Doc!
Here's another one, I've been researching an injury called Osteitus Pubis to the Pubic Symphasis. Some very similar symptoms actually.
I am still going to get an MRI and go from there. -
Give it some time groinals - like a year or so; don't write yourself off. As hair club president - ok, just a patient -here's my take.
If you are getting a lot of stuff done (lifting reasonable weights (approx. 30% of ur bodyweight), running + 10K-ish, playing w/ your kids, etc.), you should not be contemplating these surgeries. That said, prior to my AP episode, I never had back pain. Now I do. I believe AP is part of a degradation of the pelvic compartment, including the hip girdle and lower lumber. Once one infrastructural block is compromised, others (discogenic, hip tears, etc.) can follow. Why studious reinforcement of first line of defense (rec ab/trans ab & related musculature) is critical.
If you are presenting so that stairs are difficult, you have pain in the rec ab hip area upon waking and have difficultly sleeping (and you've ruled out hip/other debility) - you've may have a nasty rec ab tear and Dr. Meyers repair would be an important part of the pelvic re-stabilization (less pubic 'popping'). But I think Cattey's insertion of mesh and tacks (an extremely common lapro hernia technique) reinforces the abdominal wall and may properly finish the repair. And if you only present with rec abs discomfort/weakness (can't do Pilates/stomach work) but otherwise don't have that "there's something unattached deep in there" feeling - Cattey's repair alone may do the trick.
William's concerned about the tacks and mesh adhering nerves/blood vessels is with good reason - hernia boards are full of some very unhappy customers. I have neurogenic discomfort from Dr. Meyer's mucking around and can only imagine if notecard size mesh + tacks resided in there as well. But, with this type of hernia surgery being among the most frequently visited of all surgical procedures (millions done annually worldwide), and Cattey being acknowledged as the best re: AP & this procedure - the odds look good. However, 3000+ surgeries later, the odds looked very good with Dr. Meyers, too...
I do wonder if Dr. Cattey isn't on to something. If the tacks are solid and don't impinge and the mesh co-ordinates with the viscera (and doesn't entrap) - all a crapshoot - then I believe the abdominal wall would be reinforced. And a comfy (and athletically productive) lifestyle might ensue. But Dr. Cattey's site incredulously promises 100% success (no surgery is 100%) and I don't think he has as many procedures, or world class athletes, under his belt as Dr. Meyers; if someone finds out his number of AP surgeries, etc., I'd be interested. Surgeons are extremely reluctant to concede failure; and if there's failure, it's due to something other than their brilliant intervention!
Anyhow - the fact is that this whole AP/pelvic instability deal has gotten so sophisticated - the money guys realize many athletes don't recover - that big soccer clubs in the US are sending their guys to Germany...
http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3213670
Meet another guru of what's what in AP land:
http://www.leistenbruch.de/english/um.htm -
I have had this problem for over 11 years.
I saw Meyers in 97 and he said he couldn't help due to the resorption of the pubic bones, but he has finally agreed to see me again next month.
