good move going to dr muschaweck. you will be in very good hands.
my insurance wouldnt cover surgery- they dont even cover pt or anything else that has helped me with my injury and recovery. actually, dr muschawecks office will not accept insurance. it is up to you to deal with your insurance later if you choose to. her surgery is privately dealt with. when you get the behandlungsvertrag form, that is essientially what it translates into. i had to borrow money for the surgeries but they needed to be done.
btw, one of her secretaries had me confused on where i was staying the night of surgery. your surgery automatically pays for one night's stay at the clinic (hospital). i was mistaken and i spent the night in munich after the first side was done. the second side's surgery had me stay in the room at the clinic. be sure to stay at the clinic after your surgery, you will be tended to and have decent food and lots of german tv, with good beer in the minifridge. the surgery is actually not in munich, it takes place at the residence clinic in starnberg; her personal clinic/office is in munich.
i was in munich 3 days ahead in order to have a vacation (be sure to hit the beergartens) and has 4 days after to recoup (but ended up being 3 days since we had to do the other side afterall).
good luck, it will help! i seem to be getting better every day even with the long term with no diagnosis and resulting problems...
ps you can tell dr muschaweck that the kayaker "reffered" you, she will be happy to hear that...
good move going to dr muschaweck. you will be in very good hands.
I ran today for the first time in about 6-7 weeks (injury started around July 5th). I ran for 4 minutes, which was the plan. I had less pain and irritation than I expected, which was good. In my groin, I pretty much felt the same level of irritation as when I walk around - not really painful, just irritated and kind of weak or "out of place" feeling. I did have a lot of tightness in my hip area and knee, and I had a twinge in my knee (outer side) which seemed (seems) to be related to the groin irritation.
So, the injury seems to have made a little progress over the last two weeks of passive rest, but not entirely so. I would guess I am still nowhere near ready to return to training, etc. And I'd also guess that it's still going to take more than just RICE to solve this. But who knows. I will try to run again Friday with 8 minutes. I hopped on the bike for about 30 minutes after the run, and that didn't seem to bother it too much either. It at least felt good to get some exercise after all the passive rest.
Alistar had surgery in Tulsa by a doctor I think his name is Meese. I had surgery from this same doctor for a sports hernia and it seemed to have helped.
Cragg got the laposcopic (sic) surgery and made a fast recovery. He had it on both sides.
I just ran approx. two miles. Very ambiguous reactions from my body. I've gotta go somewhere but a report on this is forthcoming.
Injuries are perplexing.
I've followed this thread for quite some time as I've been dealing with a similar problem for over 7 years to varying degrees of pain and discomfort radiating from the center of the pubic bone. I've had ups and downs with the training over this period, but have never fallen totally out of shape - usually able to manage 50 mpw with some cross training.
Here's my story.
General Practicioner - came up empty - sent me to surgical group specializing in hernias, also "suggested" Chiropractic care.
Surgical Group - ruled out hernia in less than 10 seconds, and had never heard of the terms Sports Hernia, Athletic Pubalgia, Gilmore's Groin etc….and this is less than 2 hours from Philly while Donovan McNabb was in the news for having a Sports Hernia.
Chiropractic care round 1 - the 9 visits seemed to improve things, but I realize now that it coincided with a period of time when I was doing no intense running - just 50 mpw with no speed, tempo, etc.
Chiropractic care round 2 - should have flushed my money down the toilet and would have still been better off as I would have saved the gas.
I read about a local Sports Podiatrist who works with runners and gave it a shot. He immediately spotted a number of issues with my hips, flexors, adductors, etc, - a lot of strength / flexibility imbalances, as well as a slight leg length differential. To my surprise, he didn't whip out the orthotics and instead referred me to a very knowledgable Physical Therapist with expertise in gait analysis etc.
After 4 visits of 1 hour PT sessions and gait "re-training", my strength imbalances and flexibility issues have greatly improved. He also inserted a minimal lift to affect the leg length differential, which he said has probably always existed, but after many years of high mileage and competitive running, may have begun to cause problems - i.e. overcompensating while running, creating the imbalances, leading to a constant straining, pulling of the lower pelvic muscles.
Anyway, after these 4 visits, I was able to run 3 x 1 mile (2 minute rest) at 5:30 pace, which nothing to write home about, but the pain never showed up, and I was able to sneeze occasionally for the rest of the day without the feeling of a nail gun firing into my pubic bone.
I sure hope this improvement continues, and I hope that this may give others with similar problems some clues.
Interesting, Jaco. Thanks for sharing that.
So I ran two miles today. Throughout the run, I felt soreness and tightness in both sides of my groin (which is new - the both sides thing), but I never felt the more severe, radiating pain I associate with the injury and which was ever-present during attempts to run over the last three months. I was actually able to enjoy the run. I think this is a good sign but I'm still confused as hell. It's pretty sore right now, but none of the bad pain I had been having. I guess I'll keep making these gradual attempts to run and see what happens. Maybe I'll recover completely. Maybe I'll just relapse and still face more medical trips and possibly surgery, who knows. I have had a lot of perplexing sports injuries, but none have been as strange as this groin problem, whatever it is.
Anyway, I'll keep this thread updated, like I promised until I'm better. If anybody makes any notable improvements with your injury status, please note!
slowly getting better.
upgraded to doing more abdominal exercises such as crunches over the weekend without any real issues. i think that maybe most pain is a result of formation of scar tissue and also "working through" scar tissue with exercise. apparently that can equal pain.
oh yeah,started swimming again last week, going again today.
btw, from what i have been reading, a leg-length discrepency can help cause muscle imbalances and whatnot that can also aid in the formation of the sports hernia.
do any of you guys/gals have problems with one of your knees, in particular the knee that is on the same side of the hernia (or if you have both sides affected with pain, does one knee bother you more than the other?). i am wondring if leg length difference is hard to see. a doc once told me that i did have a longer leg. i also, within the past 5 years, have developed problems in the "longer leg" knee. all before the hernia. and the knee still hurts after two surgeries....
Johnny. you say you are getting better slowley. could you please expalin that for me. You had your surgery about 2 months ago right? I do not know if you lift weights or not, are you able to lift weights? I am a body builder and I was wondering if you could give me any insight on how long it will be before i can lift again. I am going to germany next week. Are you still satisfied with the surgery? I have only one side that is hurting me so i know our injuries are not exactly the same. thank you for your help. I will post my results for all.
As per my post above...yes my longer leg knee would bother me ...felt like patellar tendonitis...as compared to the shorter leg (the side with the most hernia type symptoms) where I would get occasional achilles flare ups...theoretically from asymetrical footplant - compared to the longer leg, I was mid foot, forefoot striking with the shorter leg.
I've been wearing a lift in the shorter leg shoe now for over a week....ran 9 miles with 4 of it at 5:55 pace this morning - so far, so good. Although the pubic bone pain has not disappeared 100% yet, the lift (1/8th of an inch) has clearly helped.
Hang in there.
thanks for the replies. not too sure about my knee, i think that there are other issues causing the valgus problems that i have. my knee sometimes feels like it is dislocated or something. all i have to do is grab my ankle and pull it to my butt like i am stretching my quad and POP! it seems to be back in place. an mri tomorrow.
going to germany, dr muschaweck will tell you that you can lift up to 44 pounds the day of surgery. but i chose not to, as you probably will not want to as well just due to the postop pains. still satisfied with the surgery, afterall, it did have to be done. that is why i went to the best. i am still recovering but slowly. if you didn't have musculoskeletal issues/imbalances beforehand due to lack of diagnosis or whatever else, then my guess is you will be back in normal action in 5 weeks or less. no joke. she fixes athletes and tends to get them back on the field again in 3 weeks.
munich is very cool. make the best if it and be sure to eat all that great food and beer. if you want you can email me and i can give you suggestions where to eat and drink.
good luck with the surgery, you are making the right move.
btw, the pain off my pubic bone is basically gone. they do happen after some exercise but are decreasing in both severity, duration, and overall incidence. the pains are due most likely to the scar tissue. you will have very large scar tissue lumps in your pelvis/abdomen. i get it worked on via physical therapy, and it has been helping immensely.
i have been able to swim for an hour 3 days a week, and am back to hiking. light yoga as well. the goal is to be kayaking in whitewater again, even though that is how i obtained the hernias in the first place. but i imagine that i will be paddling again in march with no real fears of reinjury. muschaweck will tell you that you can do situps in one week. i am just starting to be able to do crunches as of last week. but i also think that the lack of quick progress is partly mental due to the pains i went through for so long before i was even diagnosed.
if you are already in decent shape then you will make out great.
Hurt Bradley wrote:
Jonny and Matt, thanks for your responses.
See, this is the thing I am confused about if it is a sports hernia - I have no agonizing or severe pain, certainly nothing that has impeded normal "functioning." While running, it gets pretty painful - I usually have to stop after a while, but at no point would I ever describe my pain as "severe" "agonizing" or "11/10." I can walk around all day, feel some irritation (this may change after I stop the anti-inflammatories), but nothing too painful and nothing that keeps me from functioning. I could cross train with relatively little pain, but am not doing much of that because I want it to heal faster and feel this might be hindering me. Also, like I said, my abdonimal pain has been minimal so far.
SO I'm wondering whether it's just a much less severe case of sports hernia or something else: a bad adductor strain, stress fracture (I think this too would be more severe), osteitis pubis, a nerve problem, I really don't know what....Or maybe my pain is less severe because I stopped training immediately when I noticed and did not try to run or train hard (and have not since I got the injury.)
The one thing that's sure is I am not getting any better. It seems like seeing most doctors or even sports medicine doctors is pointless with these injuries. I have a phone call appt. with Dr. Meyers on Wed. though.
I read this and you described my situation exactly. Unlike most of the people on this thread who have waited years with an acute pain, I knew almost straight away that I needed to see an expert.
After a 3 week layoff between track and xcountry seasons I started to get a dull pain in my groin after 20mins of running. The next day absolutely no pain, did the same, 20mins later it starts to hurt again. Saw the physios and they had no clue, they made sure everything around the groin was fine (adductors, psiosus muscle etc) but couldn't figure out why I was still feeling pain.
I got some deep tissue massage done on it which was extremely painful but within a week I was running for 30mins painfree until the onset came again. Using one of my contacts I managed to skip a 6 week waiting list with Mark Buckingham and saw him that week (get friends in high places it helps lol). For those who don't know, Buckingham is considered to be one of the best physios in England and I found him worthy of his reputation. After getting a second opinion from the England rugby physio they both concluded it was a sports hernia (my GP, physios and masseur never knew this... sometimes you have to spend the money and go see the best).
I tried the nhs route but the waiting lists are too long, so I'm spending £2000 to get this Gilmore's Groin fixed privately by another very well qualified individual at Three Shires Hospital. Had the consultation today and we're going for a laparoscopic correction, which gives me a much quicker recovery than the traditional way. I've heard of athletes putting in 100 mile weeks a week after this op, it's generally a very fast recovery.
I'm getting this done in 2 weeks time and still putting in 40 mile weeks. You're allowed to run so long as you don't feel any acute pain and I still do weights and conditioning. Just because you have this condition does not mean to sit down and do nothing- keep active so long as there is no real pain (discomfort is fine generally).
My advice would be go see an expert asap because you can see 5 or 6 guys for a groin injury and come out no better off. It's worth the money and the time. Good luck :)
Groin Injury Sufferers: how is everyone doing?
My pain lately has seemed to switch sides of the groin. It's still sore and irritated on both sides, but lately when I've run the majority of the pain has been on my right side, whereas the injury began on the left side and was exclusively on the left side for the first 2 or 3 months. What does this mean? Anybody?
I went to a sports med. doctor and he mentioned sports hernia, said it was a controversial subject and that it was best to take a lot of time and try everything else out first. The weird thing was that when I went my pain was pretty subdued, so I had a hard time describing. It was a deep soreness, but everything he made me do and everything he pressed triggered no serious pain. BUt now, a couple days later, I tried to play frisbee and it is hurting me for sure. Also got an MRI but I haven't heard the results yet.
I have a question about CROSSTRAINING with groin injuries and/or sports hernias. Those of you who have been diagnosed with sports hernia or suspect you might have this, have you been able to cross train? If so, what have you done? Meyers told me on the phone that it was okay to keep cross training if you had one, that it wouldn't really make it worse.
This sucks so bad. It's winter now and I don't want to bike anymore. I want to be able to run and play running-dependent sports.
Good luck everyone.
Oh man,..........that guy who went by professor is gone. He went to Germany, got help and didn't look back. Sure, he had problem with Meyers, but in the end i'm thinking he may have been right to, becuase he seems to have gotten real help in Germany. Don't know how to get hold of him? Going to Germany is very scarry, but when in hurts bad and Meyers won't help, me too, I guess I gotta look into the German MD. Wow.
Hey, who are you people, I didn't know women could get this sports hernia thing, until my asst. Airman, Anna Rection got knocked out of the box with it. I guess when you think about it though, we're not talking about an inguinal hernia.
dr muschaweck (munich) doesn't call the sports hernia a sports hernia. she calls the injury sportsman's groin. she says it is not a hernia but similar. the surgery is done via hernioplasty. it does involve the inguinal canal but the posterior side.
sportsmans groin injuries can start out small and with some people the injury never really progresses to get all that much worse and with some the injury can get full-blown and cause serious pain and may trigger other musculoskeletal imbalances.
women and men alike can get the injury but i think men are more prone since in general men do more heavy labor/moving things around, and men also have a different setup with the inguinal canal, making them more prone to injuring the tissues down in there.
muschaweck is the world's most knowledgeable surgeon regarding this injury. that is why i went to her.
almost 14 weeks post op and i am getting better every week. swimming 3 days a week now without much pain. it is going to take time for my body to readjust and get back into balance, but the progression is getting faster and the pains (esp nerve pains from the injury and surgery) have mostly gone away.
I heard about someplace in Cleveland, OH that does sports hernias. YOU ever heard of them?
lt col ingus
nope, sorry, haven't heard of them.
heard of meyers, muldar, cattey, and there was another in minnesota.
i went to muschaweck because of her extensive expereience and the price was actually much cheaper than me choosing to go to philly or anywhere else.
I hear what your saying, and it sounds good to think you might be able to get a better operation result in Germany, but how do you make a decision like that? I mean, your going to another country where any number of things could have gone wrong, right? Does everyone there speak English, and I'm guessing you would have probably had to meet with a number of people in the states that said 100% sure you have a sports hernia? In back of everyone's mind is probably the thought that, what if I go over there, she pushes in a few places, and says, no,...... I don't think it's sports hernia. Do you think that if it's not a sports hernia, she will investigate your problem further and decide to do something else. I just know this. If Doc Meyers pushes in a few places and you don't jump, according to his protocol of checks and balances, then he just takes you off the surgical schedule and says, "I don't think you have a sports hernia" and because he has so much business, he's not going to investigate your injury for the purpose of doing another operation on you. Damn, that's risky if that's how it goes in Germany
i saw 27 other docs including a hernia specialist before i met with dr muschaweck. even the hernia guy did not see a hernia, although he didnt use ultrasound. he offered to "go in" and see via laproscopy and then take it from there. he had only worked on about 50 people with groin pain and no obvious inguinal hernias. i figured that i should get a second opinion before allowing myself to be a subject on sports hernia education. this doc had heard of sports hernias but didn't neccessarily agree with the testings and methods, and almost didn't believe in sports hernias.
i was lucky enough to have met with dr muschaweck in the usa while she was presenting at a hernia conference. she performed a digital exam in her hotel room and confirmed a sports hernia on one side.
i booked the trip to munich. i went to her clinic for another exam, using both digital and ultrasound at the same time, and the original side was confirmed and the other side was also found to be herniated as well.
all of her staff speaks english. so does she. the thing is that struck me was the intensity of her evaluation and confidence. her confidence is different with any other doc i have seen in my entire life (i have had many injuries and 7 operations on different parts of the body). she knows her stuff, there is a reason that so many pro athletes, even from the usa, go to her for the surgery.
this is not to say that dr meyers is not up to calliber. i am lucky enough to have met with muschaweck in the us. meyers would have been a bigger trek.
my inusrance would not cover meyers. my inusrance would not even cover anything, and without a sure diagnosis, what was i to do? no docs within plan could find anything wrong despite the fact that i had a sports accident and could not even walk afterwards. so it was up to me to find releif. that is how i came upon dr muschaweck's name. it took me 18 months to get that far. about 130 doc visits, despite my obvious agony, didn't reveal much. one or two docs told me they thought it was stress related. yeah right- way to go doctors.
meyers charges about 8k per side without insurance that covers him (in my case). then anesthesia on top of that. then hospitalization on top of that. then pt on top of that. the costs would have been much more than the total of just over 10k via dr muschaweck, for everything aside from plane tickets, hotel for the extra days, and food/beer. my body hates general anesthesia, so another reason to go to munich and go under local.
for me it was a given which was the better choice. i could have gone to 20 more docs in my health plan and would have ended up nowhere but deeper in pain.
hope that helps.