For Malmo and Hodgie-san

Shit happens.

Malmo? Hodgie-san? Anybody with a solution?

I will tell you, even though some vegetarian jerk will immediately pop up and insult me for it.

Shit is indigestible food, typically fiber. If there is a lot of it, you are probably eating a lot of fiber. Intestinal gas irritates the gut during a long run. This causes no real trouble if you can fart, but shit can get in the way and then your gut resorts to diarrhea to get rid of it.

The best way to avoid this is to not eat much fiber or other gassy foods. Yes, some doctors say eat fiber, but they don't mean you, they mean regular people who sit around all day watching TV.

Bad Wigins wrote:

I will tell you, even though some vegetarian jerk will immediately pop up and insult me for it.

Shit is indigestible food, typically fiber. If there is a lot of it, you are probably eating a lot of fiber. Intestinal gas irritates the gut during a long run. This causes no real trouble if you can fart, but shit can get in the way and then your gut resorts to diarrhea to get rid of it.

The best way to avoid this is to not eat much fiber or other gassy foods. Yes, some doctors say eat fiber, but they don't mean you, they mean regular people who sit around all day watching TV.

Seriously, thanks for the response as I sincerely appreciate it.

Not being malmo or Hodgie-san, I didn't plan to answer but now that you've expanded it to anyone, I'll chime in and say that Bad Wiggins pretty much nailed it. Steer clear of fiber, roughage, etc. for at least a day or two before a race.

There are other factors that can irritate the stomach, like caffeine/spicy food/alcohol, but I'm also going to support going low fibre before long runs/long races. I tried Noakes' suggestion of trying to go into a marathon with 'empty intestines' and ate low residue foods in the lead up (for me, rice, salmon and sugary drinks). I don't have problems with needing the loo during runs/races but it felt great running feeling all cleared out inside.

Good luck with figuring out what works best for you.

Sorry for the title as I worded it wrong. Thanks for the response as I'm seriously trying to figure this out. I broke 3 hours in my teens and would really like to do it as a 50 year old or even later on...without having to stop to go to the bathroom. Again, thanks as I appreciate any and all responses.

Thanks Limey UK runner, I truly appreciate your response and input on the subject. Have a good day.

Additional factors:

How much high fat food are you eating? And how much total food? I find when I eat more than I need ....

And most important I find for both training and racing is how far in advance I eat. Minimum of 3 hours and more desirably 4 hours, and I've never needed to stop during a race.

HRE, Limey UK runner and Timing is everything,

Thanks a jillion! If any of you have the time and can suggest exact food that you ate and when up to 2 days before the race, I would highly appreciate it. I'm trying to do this right.

So, if you eat 4 hours before the race, whatever you eat you will (should) digest and gotten rid of before the start of the marathon, correct?

The rice, salmon, etc...suggestion really got me wondering exactly what you 3 eat since you appear to have never had a problem, unlike me.

Timing is everything, I pretty much eat low fat food for the most part, but I'm surely not getting it right. Train hard, try to stay injury-free, and then have to lose valuable minutes in the can...there goes 3 hours.

Thanks and again I'd appreciate to know what you guys specifically eat the day before and the morning of. Apparently gone are the days of scarfing down spaghetti the night before.

It's been ten years since I ran a marathon so I can't recall exactly what I did in terms of food. At one time I did the whole depletion/carbo loading routine so I pretty much lived on pasta and desserts for three days before marathons.

In later years I would pretty much do the same for the last couple days, pasta,desserts and beer. On race mornings I would have a donut and a cup of tea. The tea was specifically to clear me outand it worked but didn't seem to create the need for multiple dumps, though I did have some troubles in that regard before the 1989 Philadelphia Marathon. Otherwise the routine worked pretty well.

As an aside, for me, the early hours at which marathons start now make the bathroom thing much more problematic than it was in my early years when races started at mid day.

The other thing you might try is a dose of something like Kao Pectate when you wake up on race mornings.

Thanks HRE & please know that I'm taking your advice seriously. Your comment about early hour marathons is exactly what I was thinking about. An 8am start means to eat at 4-4:30am and nothing after that...yes you are correct as that can be problematic.

I ran Philly back in the early 80's as a 19 year old and didn't have a problem back then...maybe I was just lucky.

But I'll never forget rounding the corner at around 9 miles and seeing Chestnut or Cherry Hill (I forget the name). It seemed like it never ended. We hadn't gone over the course prior but did after and the vehicle measured 1.1 miles, uphill. Memories.

I think 1989 was the last year they used the old three lap course around East and West River Drives. Luckily for me, there were some port o johns along the way. I spent a lot of time in one on my first passage.

I'll be of limited help as I tend not to suffer from GI problems and I've also never raced a marathon only ran to complete for social reasons, but I'll offer what I can in the hope that it might help. My 'safe' foods are plain lean meats, rice and sugary drinks.

My last marathon last year I ran the night after a work leaving do where I had a spicy indian curry and got pretty drunk. In the morning I had a bottle of coke a couple of hours out. Despite that crappy prep I had no problems.

The previous year and the only time I ever had an issue was when I was taking it a bit more seriously. I had 6 slices of toast and some oatmeal for breakfast a few hours out. I was gassy as hell and eventually had to stop in a pub somewhere before 20 miles.

My second last marathon last year I was using to make the decision as to whether or not to train for a proper one so was trying to get race prep right. On the advice from Noakes' Lore of Running I avoided dairy and all fibrous foods fairly strictly from about 3 days out. I was trying to 'eat to hunger' with rice/lean meat for main meals and topping up with sugary drinks if I felt the need. Come race morning I really felt like my guts ended up empty, my belly felt flatter and my weight went down slightly despite tapering and eating to hunger.

In the interests of finding your issue it may help to know the basics of digestion if your biology is a bit rusty. Once you've chewed and swallowed your food it first ends up in the stomach, which helps mechanically break down the food and secretes enzymes primarily to assist with protein breakdown. Food is there for a matter of minutes for a sugary drink up to perhaps a couple of hours for a large, fatty or high protein meal. The food then moves into the small intestines which is where the majority of absorption happens. Transit time here is perhaps 4-6 hours, maybe more or less depending on what you ate. Whatever remains then moves into the large intestine where the main job really is reclaiming water. Transit time various largely depending on diet but stuff will pretty much sit there until there is a reason for it to move out.

This is where the interesting bit is and although there is some 'artistic license' in my description it might help you figure out where your problem lies. If your small intestines perceives a threat, like rotten food/bacteria or perhaps an irritant like spicy stuff/caffeine/alcohol/dairy, it might hit the 'emergency dump' button to evacuate and get rid of the threat. You get diarrhea/loose stool because the water content is very high, which is because the crap hasn't spent very long in the large intestine and hence the water hasn't been reclaimed. In a different scenario like where Bad Wigins was talking about fibre, it's the buildup of gas - exacerbated by running - which hits the emergency switch and you may well have normal stool because up until that point the crap has had sufficient time in the large intestine to be dehydrated. You should also have a clue in how farty you are. Very farty obviously suggests a gas induced problem like fibre or dairy. Non farty may suggest a different trigger like caffeine or some other irritant.

What a wonderful topic. I do hope you find your solution!

Yep, when I ran the race it started out in the suburbs and ran to the city, no loops for us back in the early 80's. There was some decent downhill sections in the later stages before reaching the city, but that chestnut hill threw my 10 mile goal split right out the window and I had to slowly make that time back. I believe I ran the second half exactly 1 minute slower than the first...that damn hill:)

Glad you found the port o johns along the way, but it still stinks having to stop to use them:(