Cross Country Training Advice - Jack Daniels Plan

How much are you racing? I would say keep building the mileage as long as you feel, but let it drop on race weeks if you need the extra recovery.

The races are about every 2 weeks, starting 9/28.

That is some big mileage, tRg. Stay healthy! Are your stress fracture issues behind you?

pics?

no 65 is really enough. use the phase 2 of daniels to really key into " reps " . race pace stuff with a longer rest between each work period. i think he describes the difference between reps and intervals in one of the early chapters. For me the Vdot steady runs felt to fast. good luck, you will be faster if you follow through.

Personally, I don't advise continuing to increase mileage once quality work sets in. 65-70 is a good base. You have to remember that each cycle builds on the previous one. Shoot for higher mileage during the next cycle.

Why are you so obsessed with the mileage? It's the other stuff that matters. Do those and mileage will happen naturally.

The Animal Within wrote:

Why are you so obsessed with the mileage? It's the other stuff that matters. Do those and mileage will happen naturally.

Because I have no speed, even with speed training. I had to run 70-80 mpw + speedwork to PR "back in the day," and my PR is still slow (18:52). I'm lucky to break 21 these days, especially on a cross country course.

FWIW I have known very few who have successfully increased mileage *and* quality. Based on what you had been doing, your mileage seems to be at a good level already; if you allow yourself to race fairly fresh and to recover well from the races (both of which I recommend--your races should be part of your quality training), it's difficult for me to see how you could increase the mileage much anyway (except maybe a little in a week that doesn't have a race).

...All a long-winded way of saying that I don't think you should continue to increase the miles.

Speed is a mechanical skill that anyone can improve. ( Loren Seagrave ) So what you are saying is what you did back in the day did not work, and you are going to repeat this? Seb Coe typically did 50-55 , and his peak 3 weeks would touch 65-70.

Speed work doesn't have to kill every time out. 8-10 times 200m, with long rest 2-3 minutes between. make speed your main key workout.practice running fast.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Because I have no speed, even with speed training. I had to run 70-80 mpw + speedwork to PR "back in the day," and my PR is still slow (18:52). I'm lucky to break 21 these days, especially on a cross country course.

Well, 21 would be fantastic for the XC 6K ;)

I agree with some of the other posters though, I don't think it's wise to increase mileage and quality at the same time. If you really want higher mileage this season I'd spend more time base training and get it up higher then. If that's not a possibility because the season is too short, then consistency should get you pretty far.

As far as speed goes, I've had a lot of success with consistent strength training (including my calves) and strides. You can add strides after one or two of your normal runs every week without really adding much additional stress. XC is going to be more about hills though, lots of strength, and being able to recover in between them. I'm not even going to bother increasing my mileage until XC season is over. I'm just going to really tackle the workouts and try to get very strong and destroy those hills.

TX, if you really must increase your mileage (for your mental health, if for nothing else), just increase your time in the Phase II section by a week or so and do it then before you start the next phase. Phase III can be 3-6 weeks long and there is no reason that you can't just have a shorter Phase III (you still have time for both Phase IV and V before nationals.

If you really are a strength runner (meaning that you just can't drop a fast 400m, no matter how rested or out of shape you are), then be aware that Phase III probably will be rough on your. Three quality workouts a week may be more than you can handle and may be correspondingly harder on you than someone else. Also, the program was for slightly younger (more resilient) runners of HS or college age, so they may recover faster. Keep an eye out for signs that you aren't recovering sufficiently and don't let yourself get overtrained because you didn't give yourself enough time to recover.

Kudos to you for researching and planning out your training for the season instead of just hopping into the weekly local track workout which is either so general to try to suit everyone or a workout that was specifically designed for one person's goals, but everyone is assigned to do it.

How difficult is the jump from 65 to 70 for you? You should consider how well you can tolerate that amount of mileage. Maybe normally it would be fine - if you were routinely covering 60-65 mpw for the last few months, but it might be too big a jump if you were previously at 40-45. I'm not sure just having ONE 70 mile week will make much of a difference either way, however.

Good luck and have fun.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

The Animal Within wrote:

Why are you so obsessed with the mileage? It's the other stuff that matters. Do those and mileage will happen naturally.

Because I have no speed, even with speed training. I had to run 70-80 mpw + speedwork to PR "back in the day," and my PR is still slow (18:52). I'm lucky to break 21 these days, especially on a cross country course.

Read and read again Daniel's training Philosophy. Here is a quote about adding junk miles "What you are doing might be termed,

"Quality-junk" training. It is training aimed at

accomplishing an unidentifiable purpose."

Update: I topped out at 60 and have been doing that until now.

Phase I (Base)

45

50

55

60

Phase II (Prerace Season, includes 1 hill workout and 1 speed workout per week)

43

55

60

60

50

Phase III (Early Season, includes 1 speed workout and 1 tempo workout on back to back days, plus a race or third interval or fartlek workout)

60

61

60

46

50

I start Phase IV tomorrow, which will be 3 weeks, then Phase V that is also 3 weeks. I have raced 3 times so far with mediocre results, but I expected that considering the amount of training I'm doing with it. The next 3 races are the state/regional/national championships, so I'd like to actually feel fresh in these.

The past two weeks, I have been struggling in workouts, so I know now is the time to reduce mileage. I plan to go no more than 50 for the rest of the season and likely will stop doing doubles.

Should I cut back more? I was thinking something like 50, 45, 40, 35, 30, 25.

Are the big races all in Phase V? Personally I wouldn't want that long gradual decrease in mileage. I'd focus the decrease more in the Phase V part, but everyone is different. If a long taper works for you, go for it.

The first big one is this weekend. Regionals is November 23. Nationals is the only one that is in Phase V. I may not do such a hard taper. I just heard another lady on our team went from 60 mpw to 35-40 now and is racing much better, so thought there might be something to it. I want to be fresh, but not lose fitness.

I personally find that for XC I do better when I cut back for just a few days, maybe an entire week for a big meet like nationals. But I'll cut back a lot. Like the week of nationals I will probably go from my normal 70 to about 45. I did 49 this week for PNTF. I think that's highly personal though.

Why is everyone so hung up on the mileage. The key is consistency, hard work and recovery.

Skeptic of it All wrote:

Why is everyone so hung up on the mileage. The key is consistency, hard work and recovery.

Because my mind doesn't know how to listen to my body. Keeping track of my mileage is a way I feel like I am in control so I don't stress more than I already do. Just like I keep track of times, I keep track of miles.