Marathon Training Advice - Long Runs

Not doing long runs for a marathon is probably not the best approach. What is your longest run thus far?

There are people who have run good marathons without long runs but they have generally done heavy mileage, well beyond what your'e doing.

For what it's worth, in the 70s Ken Young, one of the better ultra runners of the time with a 2:25 best marathon developed what he called the "Collapse Point Theory." He believed in order to complete a race distance you needed to have a daily average mileage of at least one third of your race distance for ten weeks (I think, maybe it was eight but let's say ten) before the race. So for a marathon you'd need to average nine miles a day.

He didn't seem to think it mattered how you got to that average. Seven "9s" were fine. A "15" one day and a "3" the next was Ok. It was all about hitting that average.

I can see the logic in that I suppose. Consistency being the key.

And to the other question, my longest run has been 12 miles. Though most weeks are 8-10 with large portions at MP/HMP. I know it's not ideal training. I still have time to throw in some longer stuff but I don't want to risk injury either. I'm hitting my paces fairly easily even during the Florida summer heat/humidity. I also don't have a ton of free time but that is kind of beside the point.

No reason to not doing at least 15. 8-10 is nothing.

I've been experimenting with taking an easy week every other week. For me this means 60 miles one week, and 40 the next. I average about 50 of course. The week with more miles has more fast running too, so it's just a harder week in general. The easy week really is easy. I might take 2 or 3 days off, and the runs are all conversational pace and nothing over 10 miles except maybe an extra long long-run, or not.

I usually feel pretty beat up after the hard week and a few days into the easy week. By the end of the easy week I am ready to crush it again. I was injury prone before and I've found this approach works well for me. I like this much better than weeks and months of being totally drained and feeling like crap.

This past April, I ran a 2:55 marathon with a longest run of 17 miles. Peaked at 75 miles/week, but averaged 58 miles/week for the 18 week cycle. Very Hanson's influenced, with some personal modifications. I did do tons of 12-15 mile runs that were either moderate pace (7:00-7:15/mi), marathon pace (e.g., 2.5mi warmup, 8-10mi@6:40/mi, 2.5mi cooldown) or had tempo intervals built-in (e.g., 2.5mi warmup, 3x2mi @ 6:20-:25/mi with mile recovery, 2.5mi cooldown). I think 60 miles a week is a good number for me, but I have to make up for lack of overall volume with consistent, quality workouts. It is possible. Best of luck to you.

-2/10

I've been doing consistent quality workouts and I've been maintaining my overall mileage numbers since mid-April or so. I still have a few weeks before my race so I might try to squeeze in a few longer runs just to get my mind/mentality right. I'm definitely faster and stronger than I have ever been now I just need to keep hammering I suppose (stone cutter reference!). Thanks for the opinions gents.

Ows wrote:

-2/10

-10/10

I have a similar question about my golf game. I am playing in my club championship next week. Do you think I should practice driving the ball, chipping and putting? I've been playing a lot of putt putt and that has been going well. Any thoughts?

I've been training for American Idol by talking 7 days a week. I look forward to seeing you at galas when you are a famous golfer.

I post this thread whenever someone asks about the long run. Very informative thread with some good advice in it.

High Volume Mileage vs Long Run

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1890688&page=0

As a previous poster replied, I have gone sub 3 with my longest run being 17 miles, and I did that once. All my other 'long' runs were 16 miles. But, that was off of 80 mpw. AND, I was 41 and do not consider myself talented at all.

how long is your MP tempo? it's an interesting approach to avoid injury but i don't see you building the endurance for 26.2 miles if you are just doing an 8-10 mile run at your marathon pace. given your situation i'd suggest a cutback version of daniels' TLMPT - tempo, long, marathon pace, tempo:

2 mile warmup

2 mile tempo

6 mile MP

2 mile tempo

2 mile MP

follow that up with a 6-10 mile run later in the day, as much as you can handle without hurting yourself. i think splitting up the effort within 1 day is better than extending it across a whole week. trust me, even if you can just stumble along, that is exactly what you're gonna be feeling in the race - develop that endurance as much as you can now. i'd usually hit 22-24 miles on these workouts.

That sounds pretty close to what I'm doing for longer tempos - 20-24 miles in a 24hr period.

AM - 8 miles w/ 4-6 at MP

PM - 6 miles moderate (MP+30s)

AM - 10 miles w/ 2 warmup, 4 at MP, 4 at MP-10s

I'm concerned about the overall endurance as well. I still have 10 weeks until my marathon so I have the option to throw in some longer runs but the goal is to make it to the starting line healthy.