Henry Rono

[quote]break it up wrote:

Rono after 1979 was notorious for getting out of shape and disappearing and going long stretches of not training.

In 1981 he came back and broke his own 5000 WR in 13:06.

All I know is at Turku in '81 he ran horribly, 15:41 for the 5, I get back home to find out he broke the world record in Knarvik. I was astounded.

Avocado's Number wrote:

So, malmo, maybe you're more knowledgeable about Henry Rono's abilities and career than either Bill Rodgers or Henry Rono is. Maybe Henry was at least three seconds slower than Bill Rodgers "knew" he was, and maybe Henry was not capable of running 1,500 meters within ten seconds of what he thought he could have run, and maybe Henry never ran the three-mile race that he insists he ran. But those disagreements are between you, on the one hand, and Bill Rodgers and Henry Rono, on the other hand. It has nothing to do with my "creativity," and it has nothing to do with my being "all over the place."

Yes, I'll agree that it is not the work of your creativity, it is the doing of others.

Yes I think I understand Henry''s abilities more than Bill Rodgers does. I'm still wondering where he got the idea than Rono had 49 speed?

Since I know that Henry hasn't had a drink (nor does he desire to drink) in a long long time, I'll just tuck that one in the Gerry Lindgren file. There is no way henry had anywhere near 3:34 speed, much less 3:28. If he did he certainly would have gotten into a "glamour" race and shown his stuff. Henry was a strenght runner, not a speed runner. I'd compare him to Ritzenhein, someone whose 1500 speed has a hard wall, but is able to run closer to top end at 3000/5000 than anyone else around.

ventolin^3 wrote:

3'33/3'34 for Henry in '78 is not worth arguing against...

They can mix-up/down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlfpIiys2tk

The "they" you are talking about are very few and far between. Henry isn't one of the "they".

Well, I would say there is no runner in history who has been able to run 7:32 who has not had the ability to run 3:36 or faster. However, even if Henry Rono had 3:36 ability, which I believe he did, this clearly was not the event in which he was going to shine. The larger point is that a slightly chubby (by elite runner standards) Henry Rono ran 27:29, in a race in which he was pulled along. IF he had been at his ideal weight, he probably could have been pulled along to 27 flat, but of course nobody in that era was capable of pulling him along at that pace.

I will add that Bob Kennedy had 3:36 ability, and of course nobody can prove me wrong, nor can I prove them wrong, but Bob was not one to really gear up for the 1500m, as this made sense for him.

Fatty no matty wrote:Does the extra weight really matter as much as the lack of training? My weight has not fluctuated more than 10lbs in the last 20yrs but my 5k time varies more than 3minutes based on my (lack of) fitness. So in my mind, his weight is not the prime determinant, but his lack of training is

There is also decay of FeV1, etc with age to consider

Maybe early-30s needs to be considered nearer possible peak years for distance guys, providing years of injury free ?!

ventolin^3 wrote:3'33/3'34 for Henry in '78 is not worth arguing against....

i'd bet huge money henry was capable of this in '78

the reason people may doubt that is that he lost to ovett, who despite winning streak of maybe 15/20 races in 1500/mile races, his pb in '78 was only 3'34

this race may be culprit for posters thinking henry lacked speed

like i said, ovett only had a 3'34pb at the time despite being undisputed number 1 miler, but i bet my house he couda gone 3'30 that year

his 800 best was 1'44.09 in a wild race losing to olaf & he ran 8'13.51 above in a choppy race dictated by henry's surges - again, nowhere close to perfect

1'44.09 / 8'13.51 ->3'30.89 , 3'48.15

like i said both those races were poor in terms of pace planning & he ran only what he needed to to beat henry

his prelim line of fit for '78 i'd offer as :

47.1 / 1'43.5 ->

2'13.2

3'29.9

3'47.1

4'49.5

7'34.7

8'11.6

he couda broken the 1k/1500/mile/2k wrs that year & almost got the 800 one !

henry is losing in my estimation to a 3'29 guy in that race

you don't run such a guy so close with 3'37 speed

jonesy johnson wrote:

I will add that Bob Kennedy had 3:36 ability, and of course nobody can prove me wrong, nor can I prove them wrong, but Bob was not one to really gear up for the 1500m, as this made sense for him.

Actually Kennedy ran the 1500 often, and also had a hard wall at 3:38.

ventolin^3 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5U-LxbZ1GI

like i said, ovett only had a 3'34pb at the time despite being undisputed number 1 miler, but i bet my house he couda gone 3'30 that year

you don't run such a guy so close with 3'37 speed

I say Henry was more like Bob Kennedy with 3:38 (tested many times) speed.

Here are the splits for that Rono matchup.

62.2

61.3

61.2

64.5

64.0

61.0

63.1

57.3 (Ovett 55.8)

Back to my thought about who should have ranked #1 at steeplechase. Malinowski beat Rono two times in a row at 3000 and 3000 steeplechase. While Rono beat Malinsowki in that two mile, yet we're supposed to accept that Mailinowski's steeplechase win over Rono doesn't count becuase "it was late in the season"? Huh? Henry showed fitness late in the season by beating Malinowski in that two mile - it should count.

For more insight to the competitive record on that 1978 season.

Malinowski met and defeated more top ten ten steeplechasers (7) than Rono did (4). Three of those whom Malinowski defeated were at the top of their form, setting personal records in those races. None of the top ten steeplechasers that Rono faced set PRs. Do you see the difference in both the depth and quality of the fields that they faced?

Looking at his IAAF bio, he ran his 3'38PB in '91, many, many years before his peak years of '96 - '98

http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/united-states/bob-kennedy#progression

'91 - 3'38.2

'96 - 12'58.2

'97 - 8'11.5

'98 - 7'30.8

I'd be very surprised if he had only 3'38 speed in '96 to '98, albeit he had a 3'56 in '97 in Sheffield which is a poor place to run fast as it's inevitably freezing &/or windy &/or raining

Very hard to work out prelim lines of fit on either his 7'30 or 12'58 day as we have little idea of his 400 speed ( could be anywhere between 52.0 to 53.0 )

52.0 / 1'49.5 -> 3'34.7 , 7'30.0 , 12'55.3

52.5 / 1'50.1 -> 3'35.2 , 7'29.4 , 12'52.4

53.0 / 1'50.8 -> 3'36.0 , 7'29.9 , 12'51.9

I'd tend to 1st line & possible 3'34/3'35 speed at his peak.

It's a slightly similar situation to Mo Farah a few years ago when he had a 3'38PB but was improving significantly ( even before Salazar ). It was suggested if he got into a fast, elite 1500 he should go near 3'33 & he obliged in '09

Rupp also had a derisory 3'39PB when it was suggested he should go 3'34 last year & he again obliged.

I don't know if Bob got into a fast 1500 in '96 - '98, which would have told us a lot

malmo wrote:

pre841 wrote:

Here is one that might convince you of the 15+ pounds.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4862536076115&set=a.1080855976476.14375.1078616076&type=3&theater

Henry has always been "thicker" than most of the runners around him.

here's a shot of the finish of that race. don't you think that rumors of 15 pounds might be exaggerated?

Image:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-M6KNG-TltKQ/UFZhtv3aa_I/AAAAAAAADRE/EAWRvd-1D1w/s1600/Salazar+Rono+1982.jpg

Does henry look much different than this?

Image:

http://i33.tinypic.com/2059qih.jpg

or this?

Image:

http://alusainc.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/ronothen.jpg

this?

Image:

http://www.team-rono.com/pics/1978-commonwealth-games.jpg

this?

Image:

http://thegreatdistancerunners.de/Rono_5000_1978.jpg

Gee, he looks pretty thin here.

Well, of course Kennedy had the talent to run 3:36, but there was no reason for him to throw everything into the 1500m, much like Rono. Nobody runs 7:30, averaging 3:45 for 2 1500s, unless they have 3:36 ability.

all i've said is that it is rare for 3k/5k guys to run 1500 races at their peak 3 or 5k form in order to establish a better idea of their 1500 ability

komen himself only had a 3'34pb run just a coupla weeks before his 7'20, which indicates what joke 1500 times some of these 3k/5k guys run

it was obvious he musta been in about 3'30 shape at the time of his 7'20 & at least he obliged with 3'29/3'46 the next year !

Avocado's Number wrote:

[quote]malmo wrote:

2.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1390583&page=7

I am surprised it took so long for that epic thread to get posted.

I was at that meet, Henry ran 4:00.5, I think. He didn't break 4 because no one at that time had broken 4 within the borders of Idaho and he just missed.

Henry didn't have great mile speed, but he was unreal to watch. He certainly had a sub-13:00 and sub-8 steeple in him, IMO. Perhaps a 27:00-27:10, too.

I told you in my previous post. It was a thread a good two years ago and I'm not going to go back and try to dig it up.

That paragraph makes no sense. What does "tipping point" mean? Please rewrite it if you want me to respond it.

Take your pick of what is posted on YouTube. Keep in mind that none of it shows Rono at his best. And I qualified my assertion by saying he could run a "Ventolin 3" type 3:34. That is in perfect conditions and perfect pacing. What runner who achieved what Rono did at 3000M/5000M couldn't come close to that kind of 3:34?

Well, ok. But if you want to get into "pesky" things. There are the facts that very few people saw Rono at his best. There was no video of him. So it brings us full circle that you have to rely his recorded times, extrapolating from video of him, and what people say they saw of him. Its irresponsible to just dismiss anecdotal evidence as "apocryphal tales".

The bottom line is that I see Ventolin is right. You seem to be dismissing the speed Rono had in 1978. Evidence of which is all over the place. Both in videos where he is running intervals on the way to championship wins in less than peak form and in what you call "apocryphal tales".

Watching Henry's "workouts" during the 5K and Steeple at the 1978 NCAA's in Eugene was an amazing experience. In particular, his 5000 m. heat where he warmed up running the 1st Mile in about 4:09-10, and then ran the rest of the way accelerating the straights, running easily on the bends, and finishing without so much as a deep breath in low 13:20's. Of course, there is no way of doing a direct correlation between how incredibly fit he was at the time, and his ultimate 1500 m. potential, but I can't see a mere 3:38 guy being able to do that, and do it so easily.