Henry Rono

Henry at the 1978 NCAA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EwxhxwwuTU

And at the 1978 Commonwealth Games

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo16mBJRMdk

And there are a bunch of others if you look for them.

Let's see, 61 minus 34 would make him 27 in these videos.

he had a good shot at a sub-13 in '78 if he had been rested & got ideal pace to 3k

that's how good he was

prelim lines of fit i get for him in '78 are

51.5 / 1'48.9 ->

3'34.3

7'30.6

12'58.2

27'10.0

to

51.5 / 1'48.8 ->

3'33.9

7'29.5

12'55.9

27'04.2

i'd lean much more towards latter as his 7'32.1wr shouda been around 7'30-flat at even pace

also, i don't think his endurance extended "perfectly" to 10k ( i think 3 or 5k were his best distance - perhaps his training was geared to ~ 5k & he ran 10k off it ) & that theoretical low-27 was likely to be nearer 27'10 in his best possible "actual" race

Rono could have run 27 flat, as he ran 27:29 while clearly overweight in Eugene. That day Rono held on for dear life while Alberto punished him severely. But you see, Rono wasn't even in top shape. He ran with guts and a gut, and the man refused to lose, yet it revealed how much more he had in him if pushed while in top shape.

Does anyone know if video even exists of any of his world records in 1978?

I read somewhere that one of his world records in that year was set at a Cal/WSU dual meet in Berkley. There was an estimated 300 people max watching the race. Wouldn't surprise me if there really wasn't any video in existence of some of those records.

jonesy johnson wrote:Rono could have run 27 flat, as he ran 27:29 while clearly overweight in Eugene. That day Rono held on for dear life while Alberto punished him severely. But you see, Rono wasn't even in top shape. He ran with guts and a gut, and the man refused to lose, yet it revealed how much more he had in him if pushed while in top shape.

henry posts here, so it woud be nice to hear from him

malmo is the authority on '70s running ( & many decades either side ) & he does seem to have have damn good inside info on henry's past

maybe he can expand on "overweight" 27'29 ?

failing that, here's some basic physics that even you coud do

if he was fat, the "fit" time ( but not even-outing any splits - do that after these conversions )

"fit" time = "blubber" time * ( "fit"/"blubber" )^(1/3)

call him ?160 that day & he shouda been ?145 - 155

155 -> 27'29 * ( 155/160 )^1/3 = 27'11.7

150 -> 27'29 * ( 150/160 )^1/3 = 26'53.9

145 -> 27'29 * ( 145/160 )^1/3 = 26'35.8

i can assure you the physics formula is 100% incontrovertible

i have a hard time believing he was even 2 or 3 pounds blubberous that day as a mere 5 pounds wouda been better than mamede's later wr ( obviously no even-outing of either run )

if he was 5 pound+ overweight he wouda been easily 27-flat at "fit" weight & even-pace & implies the latter line previously was full value

perhaps he did train as a 5k/10k guy & ran 3k off it in '78 ?!

henry or malmo woud be authorities

Listen you moron. Scroll down and click on the picture of the finish. Henry is overweight for an elite runner here.

http://recoveryourstride.blogspot.com/2012/09/old-school-press-photo-of-joan-benoit.html

jonesy johnson wrote:

Listen you moron. Scroll down and click on the picture of the finish. Henry is overweight for an elite runner here.

http://recoveryourstride.blogspot.com/2012/09/old-school-press-photo-of-joan-benoit.html

The photo doesn't make henry look any more than 5 pounds overwieght. Just sayin', you need another photo to convince me.

Henry has talked about his visible "beer belly" in the race against Salazar, but I don't know whether he's ever said what his weight was. When he was fit, I believe his racing weight was about 138-140. Drew Eckmann, Henry's agent, said that Henry was at least fifteen pounds over his normal racing weight that day.

It's very difficult to estimate what Henry "coulda" run for various distances. He was generally running without pacers, against greatly inferior competition, essentially "fartleking" his races. Even his 3000 world record was a solo effort for the last 1400 meters, after a fairly slow 1600 meters. I'm pretty confident that he would have been competitive with anyone competing today in the longer track events.

Avocado's Number wrote:When he was fit, I believe his racing weight was about 138-140. Drew Eckmann, Henry's agent, said that Henry was at least fifteen pounds over his normal racing weight that day

formula is there

work it

or derive from wiki article on "drag"

15lb is virtually inconceivable

It's very difficult to estimate what Henry "coulda" run for various distances

no

it's very possible to estimate

big-sub3'35/~7'30/~13'00/~27'05

are perfectly acceptable prelim fits for his '78 peak day

Ventolin I can't tell if you have become self aware and you're making a joke about your tendency to use formulas for everything.

Are you joking?

If you saw Rono run in 1978 when he was in his prime (which I did) and saw him race Salazar in 1982 (which I did), you would know that he was much heavier. Fifteen pounds sounds about right. You gotta remember, by 1982 Rono was basically a functioning alcoholic. All the more testament to his talent and will to win despite his illness. Here is what Rod Dixon said about him in an interview:

BB: When you look back at the legend of Henry Rono, what type of athlete was he?

RD: He was in his day the best runner in the world. Wine, women and song got in the way. It’s sad, because Henry had so much talent. I remember a race in Italy. It was an absolute downpour during the 5,000. Lane one was absolutely flooded, but we persisted to run in it. Henry was in lane three and ran 13.17 and he was 15 seconds ahead of us.

PT: (laughter). You know what, he ran about 5,100 meters.

BB: I heard that one time he came to Australia for a tour. Didn’t the promoter find him before the big meet just lying in the lobby of the hotel?

RD: That’s right. The meet was postponed and Henry went down to a local bar and started drinking. He went off somewhere for two days on a drinking binge. Somebody found him and delivered Henry in an absolute coma back to the hotel into the lobby. And I remember Andy Norman, the meet promoter from England finding him. Andy said to Henry, “You are going back to Africa unless you can pull yourself together. You come down to the track at four o’clock in the afternoon.” I went down there and Andy had him run ten quarters.

PT: How fast did he go?

RD: An average of 60 seconds per quarter with 20 seconds recovery. Henry threw up at least four times, but he did it. Four days later Henry was a lap down almost 5,000 meters into the 10,000 meters. He looked back and saw the leaders about to go by him. Suddenly it looked like somebody lit a bloody fire under him. Henry took off and won the race in 27:39.

PT: He made up 400 meters?

RD: He made up 400 meters and went on to run 27:39, which was the season’s best time until about August of that year and this was back in March. Extraordinary.

Les wrote:RD: He was in his day the best runner in the world. Wine, women and song got in the way. It’s sad, because Henry had so much talent. I remember a race in Italy. It was an absolute downpour during the 5,000. Lane one was absolutely flooded, but we persisted to run in it. Henry was in lane three and ran 13.17 and he was 15 seconds ahead of us.

PT: (laughter). You know what, he ran about 5,100 meters.

running in lane 3 for 12.5 laps is

~ 25 curves @ (2 lanes out * 1.2m for each lane * pi ) =

188m

extra run

maybe call it 100 - 150m extra

for a 13'17 ->12'53.8 - 13'01.4

he probably shouda gone sub-13 in his prime

Ventolin, you cannot take casual recollections and impute fact from them.

Also, there's no way Henry had 1:48/3:34 in him. I'd put him on for 52/1:52/3:38.

Remember, that steeple WR he ran was in a rainstorm that would have had most modern day runners' mascara running.

The splits on his first WR 13;08 after a 67 first lap.

WR Berkeley (all splits 400 meters)

1:07 (67)

2:10 (63)

3:14 (64)

4:15 (61) 1600m

5:18 (63)

6:20 (62)

7:24 (64)

8:28 (64) 3200m

9:31 (63)

10:35 (64)

11:38 (63)

12:09 (31) 4600m

13:08 (59.4)

World record splits

Arthur Robinson (1908)- 15:01.2

Hannes Kolehmainen (1912)- 14:36.6 (2:45.5, 3:01.5, 2:59, 2:54, 2:56.6)

Paavo Nurmi (1922)- 14:35.4

Paavo Nurmi (1924)- 14:28.2 (2:48.6, 2:54.6, 2:57.1, 2:56.7, 2:51.2)

Lauri Lehtinen (1932)- 14:16.9 (2:46.5, 2:54.0, 2:55.5, 2:57.5, 2:43.4)

Taisto Maki (1939)- 14:08.8 (2:46.0, 2:53.0, 2:53.5, 2:52.0, 2:44.3)

Emil Zatopek (1942)- 13:58.2 (2:40.0, 2:47.0, 2:51.5, 2:50.5, 2:49.2)

Vladimir Kuts (1954)- 13:56.6 (2:44.0, 2:52.7, 2:47.2, 2:48.4, 2:44.3)

Chris Chataway (1954)- 13:51.6 (2:41.5, 2:50.1, 2:44.9, 2:53.4, 2:41.7)

Vladimir Kuts (1954)- 13:51.2 (2:38.4, 2:52.4, 2:51.8, 2:45.0, 2:43.6)

Sandor Iharos (1955)- 13:50.8 (2:44.0, 2:49.4, 2:49.8, 2:46.4, 2:41.2)

Vladimir Kuts (1955)- 13:46.8 (2:42.0, 2:48.0, 2:46.0, 2:50.0, 2:40.8)

Sandor Iharos (1955)- 13:40.6 (2:42.0, 2:46.0, 2:48.0, 2:51.0, 2:33.6)

Gordon Pirie (1956)- 13:36.8 (2:36.0, 2:46.0, 2:47.0, 2:48.0, 2:39.8)

Vladimir Kuts (1957)- 13:35.0 (2:37.8, 2:46.5, 2:44.4, 2:44.2, 2:42.1)

Ron Clarke (1965)- 13:34.8 (2:43.8, 2:43.6, 2:44.4, 2:43.1, 2:39.8)

Ron Clarke (1965)- 13:33.6 (2:39.5, 2:41.9, 2:48.0, 2:46.1, 2:38.0)

Ron Clarke (1965)- 13:25.8 (2:39.1, 2:41.3, 2:43.7, 2:44.6, 2:37.0)

Kipchoge Keino (1965)- 13:24.2 (4:16.0, 4:17.8, 4:24.8)

Ron Clarke (1966)- 13:16.6 (2:40.2, 2:36.2, 2:41.0, 2:41.6, 2:37.6)

Lasse Viren (1972)- 13:16.4 (2:36.6, 2:41.9, 2:41.8, 2:42.3, 2:33.7)

Emiel Puttemans (1972)- 13:13.0 (2:33.7, 2:38.3, 2:39.2, 2:44.4, 2:37.4)

Dick Quax (1977)- 13:12.86 (2:39.21, 2:39.21, 2:37.51, 2:42.99, 2:33.94)

Henry Rono (1978)- 13:08.4 (2:42.0, 2:36.0, 2:39.5, 2:37.0, 2:33.9)

Henry Rono (1981)- 13:06.20 (2:38.5, 2:38.5, 2:38.0, 2:38.0, 2:33.2)

David Moorcroft (1982)- 13:00.41 (2:38.0, 2:34.6, 2:37.6, 2:38.5, 2:31.7)

Said Aouita (1985)- 13:00.40 (2:35.14, 2:38.68, 2:37.18, 2:41.16, 2:28.24)

Said Aoiuta (1987)- 12:58.39 (2:35.35, 2:37.68, 2:33.34, 2:39.68, 2:32.34)

Haile Gebrselassie (1994)- 12:56.96 (2:36.6, 2:37.1, 2:37.2, 2:37.4, 2:28.7)

Moses Kiptanui (1995)- 12:55.30 (2:35.2, 2:36.6, 2:35.2, 2:36.2, 2:32.1)

Haile Gebrselassie (1995)- 12:44.39 (2:34.3, 2:34.7, 2:34.0, 2:31.2, 2:30.2)

Haile Gebrselassie (1997)- 12:41.86 (2:34.6, 2:32.0, 2:31.6, 2:35.0, 2:28.7)

Daniel Komen (1997)- 12:39.74 (2:32.7, 2:32.7, 2:31.9, 2:31.21, 2:31.21)

Haile Gebrselassie (1998)- 12:39.36 (2:34.8, 2:31.6, 2:32.9, 2:32.8, 2:27.3)

Kenenisa Bekele (2004)- 12:37.35 (2:33.24, 2:32.23, 2:31.87, 2:30.59, 2:29.42)

10k splits

Jean Bouin (1911)- 15:11.24 / 15:40.24 = 30:58.48 (3:09.36)

Paavo Nurmi (1921)- 15:06.1 / 15:34.1 = 30:40.2 (3:04.6)

Ville Ritola (1924)- 15:14.0 / 15:21.4 = 30:35.4 (2:55.4)

Ville Ritola (1924)- 15:00.12 / 15:23.0 = 30:23.12 (3:03.36)

Paavo Nurmi (1924)- 14:52.5 / 15:13.6 = 30:06.1 (N/A)

Ilmari Salminen (1937)- 15:01.0 / 15:04.5 = 30:05.5 (2:54.5)

Taisto Maki (1938)- 14:59.0 / 15:03.0 = 30:02.0 (2:57.0)

Taisto Maki (1939)- 14:58.2 / 14:54.4 = 29:52.6 (2:54.2)

Viljo Heino (1944)- 14:49.4 / 14:46.0 = 29:35.4 (2:50.8)

Emil Zatopek (1949)- 14:39.5 / 14:48.7 = 29:28.2 (2:52.2)

Viljo Heino (1949)- 14:44.0 / 14:43.2 = 29:27.2 (2:49.8)

Emil Zatopek (1949)- 14:38.0 / 14:43.2 = 29:21.2 (2:50.7)

Emil Zatopek (1950)- 14:37.0 / 14:25.6 = 29:02.6 (2:47.6)

Emil Zatopek (1953)- 14:34.8 / 14:26.8 = 29:01.6 (2:44.8)

Emil Zatopek (1954)- 14:27.6 / 14:26.6 = 28:54.2 (2:46.8)

Sandor Iharos (1956)- 14:14.2 / 14:28.5 = 28:42.7 (2:55.7)

Vladimir Kuts (1956)- 14:08.0 / 14:22.4 = 28:30.4 (2:47.9)

Pyotr Bolotnikov (1960)- 14:07.0 / 14:11.8 = 28:18.8 (2:43.8)

Pyotr Bolotnikov (1962)- 14:04.0 / 14:14.2 = 28:18.2 (2:43.7)

Ron Clarke (1963)- 14:06.5 / 14:09.1 = 28:15.6 (2:35.5)

Ron Clarke (1965)- 14:02.0 / 14:12.0 = 28:14.0 (2:41.4)

Ron Clarke (1965)- 13:45.0 / 13:54.4 = 27:39.4 (2:40.4)

Lasse Viren (1972)- 13:43.9 / 13:54.4 = 27:38.4 (2:29.2)

Dave Bedford (1973)- 13:39.4 / 13:51.4 = 27:30.8 (2:40.4)

Samson Kimobwa (1977)- 13:48.7 / 13:41.77 = 27:30.47 (2:44.6)

Henry Rono (1978)- 13:49.0 / 13:33.4 = 27:22.4 (2:36.9)

Fernando Mamede (1984)- 13:45.40 / 13:28.41 = 27:13.81 (2:32.72)

Arturo Barrios (1989)- 13:32.39 / 13:35.84 = 27:08.23 (2:35.67)

Richard Chelimo (1993)- 13:33.8 / 13:34.11 = 27:07.91 (2:39.4)

Yobes Ondieki (1993)- 13:28.05 / 13:30.33 = 26:58.38 (2:38.2)

William Sigei (1994)- 13:32.71 / 13:19.52 = 26:52.23 (2:33.9)

Haile Gebreselassie (1995)- 13:21.4 / 13:22.13 = 26:43.53 (2:34.7)

Salah Hissou (1996)- 13:25.45 / 13:12.63 = 26:38.08 (2:36.11)

Haile Gebreselassie (1997)- 13:16.74 / 13:14.58 = 26:31.32 (2:36.67)

Paul Tergat (1997)- 13:18.0 / 13:09.85 = 26:27.85 (2:35.75)

Haile Gebreselassie (1998)- 13:11.7 / 13:11.05 = 26:22.75 (2:31.2)

Kenenisa Bekele (2004)- 13:14.42 / 13:05.89 = 26:20.31 (2:31.97)

Kenesia Bekele (2005) 13:09.19 / 13:08.34 = 26:17.53 (2:32.44)

Many thanks malmo

I have to disagree though.

I know you know Henry well & probably had insight into his training, but 52/1'52/3'38 is too slow.

I believe you posted his splits for the 3k WR of ? ~ 3'50/3'42

It's not really conceivable to put in a 3'42 if your open 1500 is only 3'38.

I think Henry had lot more speed than many people think ( that loss to Ovett in let's be straight about this, a slow race for Henry ( 8'14 isn't comparable to a 7'32 ) after a gruelling season may lead posters to believe he didn't have great speed ).

To run 7'32 off some serious -ve splits requires some great 1500 intrinsic ability & by implication probably some damn good 800 for a distance runner of the time.

He possibly had top-5 1500 ability of any active 1500 guy in '78, just that he never ran a serious one. He would of course have to hammer it from gun-to-tape.

It's same as Rupp when he went 3'34 last year, which was obvious from calculator to be his ~ intrinsic ability at the time, but most here were saying he's only got 3'37 speed at best.

Henry would be similar.

Avocado's Number wrote:

Henry has talked about his visible "beer belly" in the race against Salazar, but I don't know whether he's ever said what his weight was. When he was fit, I believe his racing weight was about 138-140. Drew Eckmann, Henry's agent, said that Henry was at least fifteen pounds over his normal racing weight that day.

Henry was definitely packing weight, but 15 pounds is an exaggeration. Half that, 7-8 pounds? Here are two photos of that race (c/o Joe Volk)

Thanks for the great pics!! He does look quite thick. I can put 5 pounds on and you couldn't notice. I wouldnt be surprised to find out be was 15 lbs above his regular racing weight here.

I first saw Henry run at the Vandal Indoor Meet in Moscow, Idaho. Almost no-one had heard of him, I think he was in his first year at WSU. As I recall, he ran a bit under 4:00 for the Mile, almost on his own. In my opinion, at his peak he would be able to run close to 3:35-36 for the 1500.

I don't know Malmo. You seem in your own right to want to cherry pick evidence and rationalize that Rono was not all that great. I remember in a thread a couple years ago you asserted that Malinowski was a better 3000M steeplechaser than Rono in 1978 based on the one fact (albeit a good one) that he had beaten Rono in their only head to head match up. But he beat Rono in September at a time when Rono obviously would have been burnt out from racing both in college and in through the summer up through the Commonwealth games in early August. Rono of course had run a 3000M Steeple a good 10 seconds faster, by himself, than the winning time Malinowski had in beating Rono in September.

I think Ventolin is on solid ground with the 3:34 albeit in classic Ventolin fashion where he is using the theoretical perfect conditions race. But I don't see how he could have run his great steeplechase times and NOT have been capable of running very close to 3:34. There is other video and anecdotal evidence to show Rono had more than enough speed for 3:34. I think of the story told of Rono at the Cal dual meet. Rono was coming around the front stretch of a lap during his race just as a Cal long jumper was making his attempt. Apparently Rono outran the long jumper as they were running side by side.