Bolt's not on drugs, he's always been great (with videos when he was young)

Factt wrote:

Carl Lewis was tall as well. It took him until he was 30 to run 9.86, and he never ran faster. How do you explain that?

He was American

Height, more appropriately leg length by body weight is one of the most important factors when determining injury rates.

Taller people have smaller feet proportionally to their weight. That means they have less foot per pound to exert force. That means their feet take a much greater load during training and racing. Also Sprinters take a much greater load in sprint training than distance runners, regardless of training surface.

Read these books on googlebooks:

Better Training for Distance Runners

By David E. Martin, Peter N. Coe

Lovell and Winter's Pediatric Orthopaedics, Volume 1

Bolt's performances are 'unbelievable' for a man his size. The facts fit a narrative that is highly suggestive Bolt is or has been doping and many of his times are a result of doping.

It doesn't take a genius to see his performance drop from 2007 to 2008 as questionable. It also doesn't take a genius to realize that Jamaica's results in the 2008 Olympics were highly questionable.

Bolt is frequently injured. In fact, he was injured this year, so I don't know why people are acting like he's not injured enough. He's also still fairly young, and will start seeing more serious injuries as he gets older.

Also, why are people holding up sprinters who PR'd in their late 20s as examples? Those are the people who most seem like they're doping. You shouldn't be running a PR at 28 as a professional sprinter.

Because those sprinters who PR'd in their later 20's did so after years and years of training and experience. They also happened to be the second fastest or were the second fastest after Bolt came along so they are kind of important to the discussion.

Bolt is not frequently injured. He says he's frequently injured then he runs 7 races and 9.63/19.32/8.71 in a week. Sounds like someone who's injured all right.

Ben L. Wrong wrote:

I saw a video of Bolt running 21.7 at age 14 (2001 WYC's in Hungary), his form was very ugly, but he got the talent.

So, only 2.5 seconds of improvement in 8 uears of serious trsining.

No big deal.

Hell, I'd attribute 1.5 of those seconds just to growing the heck up. He was a child, now he's a man.

So let's call it a 1 second improvement due to training over the course of 8 years. Entirely reasonable.

Americans are jealous little crybabies - like Uceny! Man up and start training hard. Lazy bums!!

Growth Hormone stops injuries wrote:

Johnson was 28 when he ran 19.32. Gay was 27 when he ran 9.69 with a huge tailwind.

Bolt was 21 when he exceeded both of those times in one week into still wind and a headwind.

Bolt can do what he does only because he is on some kind of drug like growth hormone or something else.

If Bolt was like Johnson or Gay, he'd be 27 in a couple years and running 18.9 and 9.49. Thats just so much faster than anyone else has ever gone that it arouses suspicion.

Especially since he was 'injured' twice this year supposedly and still runs 9.63 and 19.32, then anchors in his 3rd fastest 4x100 split ever. All while 'injured' mere weeks ago.

is Bolt believable? Not to the educated eye.

So if someone runs their fastest times very late in their career, they must be on drugs. But if someone runs very fast times at a (relatively) young age, they also must be on drugs. Alright then.

Personally I think the only legitimate reason to be suspicious of Bolt is the fact that he trains with Yohan Blake.

Growth Hormone stops injuries wrote:

those sprinters who PR'd in their later 20's did so after years and years of training and experience.

That doesn't compute. Typically, in events like the 100 and 200, whatever experience and added training might add to a sprinter's capabilities as he approaches age 30, wear and tear and basic aging takes away. You're essentially saying you're suspicious of guys who gain a lot of speed between their late teens and their early twenties, but can happily buy the steady progression of people who wind up PR-ing at 30 or later. That is bass-ackward.

None of this, by the way, is a defense of the Jamaicans -- wouldn't surprise me one bit of the whole crew is as dirty as Merlene Ottey was years back. But the reasoning path you take to question the gang doesn't seem to hold water.

Bolt BOTH has always been great, and is on drugs. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Bolt BOTH has always been great, and is on drugs. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

Best post of this thread.

It was almost inevitable that someone with the talent of Usain Bolt would come out of Jamaica or the Caribbean. Jamaican and Caribbean athletes have always been in the mix. Track and field and cricket are perhaps the only sufficiently developed sports that allow athletes in that region to break out internationally while training locally. In Jamaica alone there were Arthur Wint( Olympic 400 gold), Don Quarrie(200 Olympic gold), Merlene Ottey(most medals in track by a female athlete) to come out of that one country - just to name a few.

So I'm not surprised that someone with the magnitude of the talent of Usain Bolt arrived on the scene when he did. The only surprise is that it did not happen sooner. And I'm not surprised that Grenada's Kirani James from a country even smaller than Jamaica with less than a tenth of Jamaica's population is winning Olympic gold and running a sub 44 second 400M at only 19 years old.

If you are athletic in those small island countries and you want to be a pro athlete, track and field is probably close to the top of the list of sports to consider. Not so in the US or Europe - track and field is probably close to the bottom of the list. So the best talent in those countries gravitate to track whereas the best athletes in US/Europe are going elsewhere. And so it shall be for a while yet 'til track makes a comeback (perhaps).

Gay and Johnson were 28ish, not 30. Carl Lewis ran and jumped his best at 30. Linford Christie was freaking 34 (although he was doped).

If an athlete remains healthy with a good diet, they will reach their best in their mid-late 20's. Be it jumping, distance, or sprints.

Athletes who dope will burn out faster as doping effects the aging process and also causes hormone imbalances. As soon as they stop doping their performances collapse.

Its obvious even without PED's Bolt is still probably the best in the world in both the 100 and 200. He would still have 4-6 Olympic Gold medals, but his records would be human, in the 9.65/19.30 range. And he actually would be honestly injured.

Its not odd that Bolt came along. Not at all.

Its odd that Powell, Blake, Carter, VCB, SAFP, Kerron Stewart, Simpson all came along at the same time as Bolt and set huge PR's all within a few years +- of Beijing and are now trying to back off like they aren't doped.

Yup, sounds unbelievable to me.

In America we put Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery in prison. In Jamaica Bolt and Mills are heroes and even if caught they would never be prosecuted.

Uncivil Engineer wrote:

Phil Fondacaro wrote:

Marion Jones as a high school freshman:

Yep, and she proves the point the OP was making -- that phenoms like her and Bolt are so good, they would simply never resort to using PEDs.

Marion Jones was roiding in Highschool.She's a sociopathic cheat.

Growth Hormone stops injuries wrote:

Its not odd that Bolt came along. Not at all.

Its odd that Powell, Blake, Carter, VCB, SAFP, Kerron Stewart, Simpson all came along at the same time as Bolt and set huge PR's all within a few years +- of Beijing and are now trying to back off like they aren't doped.

Some of the athletes you mentioned train with different clubs and some don't even live in Jamaica. Powell, Carter, SAFP and Simpson are with MVP; Bolt, Blake are with Racers Track Club; VCB lives and trains in the US year round and for a time was training with Tyson Gay; Kerron Stewart also lives and trains in the US. So how are the US based Jamaican athletes beating the system in the US - if that is your argument? Also many of these athletes had their peak at different times in some instances 2+ or more years apart.

Uncivil Engineer wrote:

Phil Fondacaro wrote:

Marion Jones as a high school freshman:

Yep, and she proves the point the OP was making -- that phenoms like her and Bolt are so good, they would simply never resort to using PEDs.

Marion Jones was roiding in Highschool.She's a sociopathic cheat.

[quote]BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE wrote:

Some progressions from Bolt's training group:

Bolt 100m:

2007 - 10.03s

2008 - 9.69s

2009 - 9.58s

Bolt 200m:

2007 - 19.75s

2008 - 19.30s

2009 - 19.19s

Blake 200m:

2009 - 20.60s

2010 - 19.78s

2011 - 19.26s

Jason Young 200m:

2011 - 20.53s

2012 - 19.86s

Clear sign of doping.Thread over

You sound Jamaican. All I can tell you is that your country is not viewed as positively as you would like to think, nor is Bolt or any of the Jamaican sprinters. We know they're doping and doped in the past and took medals away from real champions who don't have to cheat.

Its one thing to cheat when you suck and just want to be good. Its another when you're one of the best in the world and you just want more. Bolt, Powell, VCB, and SAFP fall into that category.

Growth Hormone stops injuries wrote:

You sound Jamaican. All I can tell you is that your country is not viewed as positively as you would like to think, nor is Bolt or any of the Jamaican sprinters. We know they're doping and doped in the past and took medals away from real champions who don't have to cheat.

Its one thing to cheat when you suck and just want to be good. Its another when you're one of the best in the world and you just want more. Bolt, Powell, VCB, and SAFP fall into that category.

I'm a part time track and field analyst for a sports website. It is my job to follow the sport and athletes and know the history of the sport. I take the doping issue seriously and follow all credible leads wherever they may go.