Steve Dolan leaving Princeton

Out of curiosity, why don't universities add non compete within the conference clauses to coaching contracts? SOP in business.

Because they don't care about this sport.

Wisco Fan wrote:

Out of curiosity, why don't universities add non compete within the conference clauses to coaching contracts? SOP in business.

I *believe* (but could be wrong) that Ivy League universities either don't permit or at least don't *have* that kind of provision--contrary to the "Ivy spirit," doncha know. Remember that Nathan Taylor had been an assistant at Penn immediately before taking the head coach's position at Cornell.

What I don't know at all: whether Ivy athletes may transfer to other Ivy League colleges and have immediate eligibility. Anyone KNOW (not speculate) about this? It's a major question because in the Ivy League there's a four-years-of-classes eligibility clock--no redshirting while remaining a student.

No Ivy league policy. It is case by case and at the sole discretion of the school's coach/AD. That being said, how often do you see transfers to Ivy league schools from anywhere, much less other Ivies?

argt wrote:

I *believe* (but could be wrong) that Ivy League universities either don't permit or at least don't *have* that kind of provision--contrary to the "Ivy spirit," doncha know. Remember that Nathan Taylor had been an assistant at Penn immediately before taking the head coach's position at Cornell.

What I don't know at all: whether Ivy athletes may transfer to other Ivy League colleges and have immediate eligibility. Anyone KNOW (not speculate) about this? It's a major question because in the Ivy League there's a four-years-of-classes eligibility clock--no redshirting while remaining a student.

argt wrote:

What I don't know at all: whether Ivy athletes may transfer to other Ivy League colleges and have immediate eligibility. Anyone KNOW (not speculate) about this? It's a major question because in the Ivy League there's a four-years-of-classes eligibility clock--no redshirting while remaining a student.

It's more four years of conference eligibility while you are enrolled, but you can do a fifth year elsewhere if you did redshirt for some reason (however, it cannot be Ivy graduate studies).

But to be honest, I've never heard of inner-league athlete transfers.

My point was that coaches can prevent scholarship athletes from transferring within the conference by refusing to release them. See Bo Ryan. Also, Watson left UNC for UVA. Thanks for the intelligent responses.

I would think it would be extremely awkward for an Ivy athlete to transfer to another Ivy League program, especially in a small, tight world like distance running where everyone knows everyone else and rivalries tend to be about as old as the institutions themselves.

Distance coaching positions are now open at both Stanford and Princeton with only a month or so left until school starts (Stanford a bit later, but training camp generally starts well before school). It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Arguably the 2 best academic-athletic institutions in the country. And also right in the middle of recruiting to set up fall school visit for next year's class. Interesting.

i wonder what is going on at princeton right now admissions wise. their basketball coach, sydney johnson, left in 2011 after almost beating kentucky in the ncaa tournament. he is a princeton guy--on the team that beat ucla--and said he was committed. but apparently he was tired of guys getting into harvard but not princeton. it wouldnt take long to lose credibility recruiting if admissions tells you a guy will get in, you make a promise, then the guy doesnt get in. is there a new policy, new dean of admissions, etc? it seemed like princeton had always been the ivy or one of the ivies most focused on excelling athletically.

wicker r wrote:

sounds like dolan got tired of having the admissions people tell him no no no.

That's why Vin left Dartmouth anyway.

Not that penn is so much easier to get in to, but it is easier no doubt.

C/M Runner wrote:

argt wrote:

What I don't know at all: whether Ivy athletes may transfer to other Ivy League colleges and have immediate eligibility. Anyone KNOW (not speculate) about this? It's a major question because in the Ivy League there's a four-years-of-classes eligibility clock--no redshirting while remaining a student.

It's more four years of conference eligibility while you are enrolled, but you can do a fifth year elsewhere if you did redshirt for some reason (however, it cannot be Ivy graduate studies).

Agreed, that's why I said "IN the Ivy League."

To someone else's question about transfers: I believe Princeton does not allow any transfers. I believe that all the other Ivies do. I know that Cornell's high jumper, Montez Blair, is a transfer; and two of their incoming women's class are transfers (from Cortland State and Bucknell):

Wisco Fan wrote:

My point was that coaches can prevent scholarship athletes from transferring within the conference by refusing to release them.

Right, but there are no athletic scholarships within the Ivy League.

The problem at Princeton and Dartmouth is size - they are measurably smaller than the other Ivies yet they have to maintain a full slate of sports teams. That gets frustrating for coaches, when the field hockey team gets some help from admissions at, say, the cost of xc.At Penn, Cornell and even Harvard, the larger student body gives the admissions people some more freedom, as long as that ivy athletic index threshhold is met. Undergrad size:Dartmouth: 4,248Princeton: 5,113Penn: 10,301______________

School undergrad sizes:

Brown: 6,318

Columbia: 7,743

Cornell: 13,935

Dartmouth: 4,248

Harvard: 10,625

Penn: 11,940

Princeton: 7,724

Yale: 5,275

http://collegeapps.about.com/od/choosingacollege/tp/ivy-league-schools.htm

But I think the number of sport teams at the given schools play into account. Harvard as the greatest number in D1 sports (42)

that makes sense agip. thank you.

A couple of thoughts. When Glen Miller left Brown to coach basketball at Penn, a star Brown basketball player tried to come with him. As the story goes, the President of Brown called the President of Penn to complain and Penn refused admission. So I don't believe there is a hard and fast rule on this subject but it is frowned upon. A number of years ago a bball player transferred from Penn to Brown (but not in connection with a coaching transfer) and my recollection is he had to sit out a year.

Just to be clear, it is not at all unusual for Ivy League schools to offer head coaching positions to assistants at other Ivies. Princeton hired a Penn assistant a couple of months ago to coach its softball team.

Basketball is not track. NCAA says auto one year bench in basketball and football for transfers.

smd wrote:

A couple of thoughts. When Glen Miller left Brown to coach basketball at Penn, a star Brown basketball player tried to come with him. As the story goes, the President of Brown called the President of Penn to complain and Penn refused admission. So I don't believe there is a hard and fast rule on this subject but it is frowned upon. A number of years ago a bball player transferred from Penn to Brown (but not in connection with a coaching transfer) and my recollection is he had to sit out a year.

Just to be clear, it is not at all unusual for Ivy League schools to offer head coaching positions to assistants at other Ivies. Princeton hired a Penn assistant a couple of months ago to coach its softball team.

Now that you mention it, I do recall that Penn admitted a couple of track transfers (Ifill, Jaworski) from non_Ivies a few years ago and they were immediately eligible. Not sure if the Ivy League has more stringent rules regarding transfers within the league. Do you know?

I know in other conferences at least, the original coach/athletic department needs to give some kind of consent. I heard a story from a UMass coach on when she received a transfer who still had eligibility but previously ran for another school in their conference (Atlantic 10, which is also D1), the original school did not give consent for the girl to run for UMass.

smd wrote:

Now that you mention it, I do recall that Penn admitted a couple of track transfers (Ifill, Jaworski) from non_Ivies a few years ago and they were immediately eligible. Not sure if the Ivy League has more stringent rules regarding transfers within the league. Do you know?

This was answered correctly earlier. there is no Ivy League rule on the matter. It's up to coaches and ultimately, Athletic Directors.

I recall a female multi-eventer transferring from Princeton to Brown several years ago, for non athetically related reasons.